>> HELLO EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> AMERICA HAS NO GREATER ALLY IN THE WORLD THAN ISRAEL, AND ISRAEL HAS NO GREATER ALLY THAN THE UNITED STATES.

>> ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES LAUNCHED THE WAR ON IRAN TOGETHER, BUT ARE THEY STILL ALIGNED ON WHERE THEY'RE HEADED?

I SPEAK TO FORMER POLICY ADVISER TO PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU.

> >> WE'RE GOING TO KNOCK OUT ALL THEIR POWER PLANTS.

WE'RE GOING TO KNOCK OUT ALL THEIR BRIDGES UNLESS THEY GET TO THE TABLE AND NEGOTIATE.

>> AS THE BATTLE FOR HOME WARS INTENSIFY AGAIN, CAN ALLIES TRUST AMERICA?

THE HEAD OF THE CHICAGO COUNCIL ON GLOBAL AFFAIRS JOINS ME.

> >> THREE WEEKS AFTER A DEVASTATING DOUBLE EARTHQUAKE IN VENEZUELA, THE GOVERNMENT REMAINS UNDER FIRE FOR ITS RESPONSE.

CORRESPONDENCE STEPHANO REPORTS.

>> IT'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK JUST BEING AN OLDER PERSON.

> >> GROWING OLD IN AMERICA.

WE SPEAK TO LUCY SHILLER ABOUT HER NEW BOOK, AGING OUT.

> >> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

AMERICA LAUNCHED MULTIPLE STRIKES ON IRAN THIS MORNING, ANOTHER WAVE OF ATTACKS OVER THE PAST SEVERAL DAYS.

AND BY REIMPOSING ITS NAVAL BLOCKADE, WASHINGTON IS RESUMING ITS EFFORTS TO FORCE IRAN BACK TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE BY THREATENING ITS ECONOMY.

THE U. S. CENTRAL COMMAND CLAIMS THE ASSAULT, "FURTHER DEGRADED IRAN'S ABILITY TO ATTACK COMMERCIAL SHIPPING IN THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ. "

MORE THAN 30 CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN RECENT STRIKES.

THE TEHRAN GOVERNMENT SAYS MORE WERE INJURED.

IRAN LAUNCHED MULTIPLE DRONES AND MISSILE STRIKES ON U. S. MILITARY ASSETS IT IN KUWAIT, BAHRAIN, AND JORDAN.

JUST ACROSS THE BORDER, ISRAEL IS WATCHING ALL OF THIS AND INCREASING THE ODDS AT THE WHITE HOUSE OVER IRAN'S STRATEGY.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS TOLD THE GOVERNMENT TO WITHDRAW ITS FORCES FROM LEBANON AND SYRIA.

NOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAYS THAT AFTER TWO DAYS OF BROKERING TALKS IN ROME, ISRAEL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN MAKING WITHDRAWS FROM SOUTHERN LEBANON.

THIS IS ALL A MAJOR TEAR FOR BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, AS HE HEADS TO NATIONAL ELECTIONS IN LATE OCTOBER.

IT WOULD BE THE FIRST ELECTION SINCE THE OCTOBER 7 HAMAS ATTACKS.

FOR MORE ON ALL OF THIS, LET'S BRING IN A KEY FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU, AND HE'S JOINING US FROM JERUSALEM.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

LET ME START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT IRAN.

HOW MUCH DOES THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT GO ALONG WITH MR.

TRUMP'S EFFORTS TO MAKE PEACE WITH IRAN?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, CHRISTIANE.

WE HAVE A COMMON GOAL, ISRAEL AND AMERICA HAVE A COMMON GOAL.

THEY WILL NEVER HAVE A NUCLEAR BOMB.

IF PRESIDENT TRUMP THINKS THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED BY NEGOTIATIONS, GREAT.

BUT DEAL OR NO DEAL, THE PRIME MINISTER HAS MADE CLEAR THAT IRAN WILL NEVER HAVE NUCLEAR BOMBS AS LONG AS HE IS PRIME MINISTER.

>> I WOULD JUST SAY AGAIN AND AGAIN, I THINK EVERYBODY BELIEVES THAT.

WHOLE WORLD BELIEVES THAT.

THE THING IS, WHICH I WONDER WHAT WORRIES YOU IS PRESIDENT TRUMP, AT THE MOMENT, IS NOT SO MUCH FOCUSING ON THE NUCLEAR PICTURE, BUT MUCH MORE, OF COURSE, ON THE IMMEDIATE ISSUE, WHICH IS THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

WHERE DOES THE PRIME MINISTER STAND ON ALL OF THIS?

LET ME JUST SAY, IF A DEAL IS REACHED, ACCORDING TO THE NEW YORK TIMES, A RETURN TO FULL BLOWN CONFLICT IS WIDELY SEEN AS PREFERABLE TO MANY ISRAELI MILITARY AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS.

IS THAT THE CASE?

>> WELL, THE PRESIDENT AND THE PRIME MINISTER HAS MADE IT ABSOLUTELY CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT THE NUMBER ONE OBJECTIVE IS FOR IRAN NOT TO HAVE NUCLEAR BOMBS.

NOW THE WORLD CAN SEE HOW IRAN IS BLACKMAILING THE WORLD WITH THE STRAIT, THE HORMUZ STRAIT.

YOU CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT THEY WOULD DO IF THEY HAD NUCLEAR BOMBS.

THEY WOULD BLACKMAIL THE WORLD, AND THERE WOULD BE VERY LITTLE THE WORLD COULD DO ABOUT IT.

>> LET ME PLAY THIS SOUND BITE FROM PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU EARLIER THIS WEEK, WHEN HE SAID ISRAEL WAS READY FOR ANYTHING.

>> WE ARE PREPARED FOR ANY SCENARIO.

I COULD SAY ONE THING.

ACTUALLY, I WILL SAY THIS TO THE LEADERS OF IRAN.

DO NOT COUNT ON IT BEING QUIET IF YOU ATTACK US.

DO NOT COUNT ON A RERUN.

BECAUSE THERE WILL NOT BE A RERUN, WHICH IS ALREADY POWERFUL ENOUGH.

THIS WILL BE THE DIFFERENT EVENT, MUCH MORE POWERFUL.

>> CAN I ASK YOU SINCE YOU'RE A KEY FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER TO THE PRIME MINISTER.

AFTER ALL THESE MONTHS OF THE WAR.

WHAT MORE DO YOU THINK ISRAEL OR THE UNITED STATES OR COMBINED CAN AND WOULD DO?

HAVE YOU, IN FACT, TRIED EVERYTHING OR HAVEN'T YOU?

>> WELL, WE HAVE DEGRADED THEM SUBJECTIVELY.

THE MAIN OBJECTIVE WAS TO REMOVE THE NUCLEAR THREAT TO ISRAEL AND TO THE WORLD AT LARGE TO DEGRADE THEIR MISSILE CAPABILITIES, AND TO CREATE THE CONDITIONS FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND TO TAKE THEIR DESTINY IN THEIR OWN HANDS.

WE HAVE MADE INCREDIBLE PROGRESS AS PROFESSOR DAVID ALBRIDGE HAS REPORTED IN HIS STUDIES.

WE HAVE DIMINISHED THEIR NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES SIGNIFICANTLY.

WE'VE TAKEN THEIR 20 TOP NUCLEAR SCIENTISTS.

WE'VE TAKEN OUT THOUSANDS OF THEIR MISSILES.

WE'VE HIT THEIR SITES HARDER THAN EVER BEFORE.

AND IRAN IS WEAKER THAN EVER BEFORE.

NOW, AGAIN, THE PRESIDENT THINKS HE CAN GET ALL THE MATERIAL OUT, ALL THE DUST OUT BY MEANS OF NEGOTIATIONS.

RIGHT NOW HE'S NEGOTIATING WITH BOMBS.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IF HE COULD MAKE A DEAL BY NEGOTIATING THIS, GREAT.

BUT DEAL OR NO DEAL, IRAN WILL NOT HAVE NUCLEAR BOMBS.

>> OKAY, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS.

TRUMP MENTIONED IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS AND SO DID NETANYAHU THAT THE CONDITIONS FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR DESTINY IN THEIR OWN HANDS WERE BEING CREATED.

THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID, THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE PRESIDENT.

AND ESSENTIALLY REGIME CHANGE WAS A GOAL.

AND WE KNOW NOW FROM SO MUCH DEEP REPORTING FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES IN ISRAEL THAT THAT HAS BEEN A VERY, VERY KEY AIM OF PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU.

SO YOU MUST HAVE READ ALL THESE ARTICLES ABOUT SOME OF THE PLANNING.

I DON'T KNOW --I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE PLAN TO BRING BACK THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND INSTALL HIM INSTEAD OF THEM.

TELL ME ABOUT --WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

DID YOU ADVISE THE PRIME MINISTER THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA?

>> WELL, I HAVE NOTHING ON THAT, CHRISTIANE.

I HAVE NOTHING ON THAT.

WHAT I CAN TELL YOU, OUR AIM WAS TO REMOVE THE NUCLEAR THREAT, DIMINISH THE MISSILE THREAT, AND TO CREATE THE CONDITIONS FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR OWN DESTINY IN THEIR OWN HANDS.

IT'S UP TO IRANIAN PEOPLE.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, THEY'VE BEEN SLAUGHTEREDDED ON THE STREETS OF TEHRAN, UP TO 52,000 INNOCENT IRANIAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTEREDDED BY THE REGIME.

NOW, I'M SURE THE IRANIAN PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO REMOVE ONE AND GET ANOTHER.

THEY DESERVE FREEDOM, AND WE SHOULD FREE OR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE FREEDOM.

>> I THINK MANY, MANY PEOPLE WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.

MANY IRANIANS, OF COURSE, ALL IRANIANS WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.

HOWEVER, THE METHODOLOGY IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT HAS TRIED AND TESTED, AND SO FAR IT SEEMS TO HAVE FAILED.

BECAUSE IT IS CLEAR FROM ALL THE REPORTING THAT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU REALLY WANTED REGIME CHANGE.

HE TALKED TO PRESIDENT TRUMP ABOUT IT.

HIS CHIEF WENT AND TALKED TO PRESIDENT TRUMP ABOUT IT.

AND KEY TO THIS WAS REPLACING THEM WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER OR THE PRESIDENT WHO AS YOU WELL KNOW WAS MUCH HATED BY ISRAELI FOR THEIR ANTI, YOU KNOW, SEMITISM, FOR THEIR HOLOCAUST DENIAL, AND FOR RAISING VERY AGGRESSIVELY THE WHOLE NUCLEAR ISSUE IN THE NUCLEAR THREAT.

SO ACCORDING TO THEM.

PEOPLE RUNNING ISRAEL'S INTELLIGENCE IN MILITARY DIDN'T BELIEVE IN THIS PLAN THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THEM BY THE MOSSAD.

BUT THEY SAID, "BECAUSE THE PRIME MINISTER STOOD BEHIND THAT MADNESS IN FURTHER QUOTES, THE SUBJECT KEPT RESURFACING. "

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THE PRIME MINISTER INSISTED ON THIS PLAN, WHICH AS WE NOW KNOW COMPLETELY FAILED.

MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE IT WAS A FAST FROM THE BEGINNING.

WHAT WAS IT, DO YOU THINK, THAT KEPT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU BELIEVING THIS WAS A VIABLE OPTION?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET'S STICK TO THE FACTS, CHRISTIANE.

REGIME CHANGE WAS NEVER DEFINED THE GOAL.

THE GOAL WAS TO REMOVE THE THREAT POSED BY THE REGIME WITH A NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES, DEGRADE THEIR MISSILE CAPABILITIES, AND TO CREATE THE CONDITIONS FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE WAR HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE, HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE.

IRAN IS WEAKER THAN EVER BEFORE.

AMERICA AND ISRAEL ARE STRONGER THAN EVER BEFORE.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

SO LET'S STICK TO THE FACTS.

REGIME CHANGE WAS NEVER THE OBJECTIVE.

AGAIN, REMOVING THE THREAT OF THE NUCLEAR THREAT.

AND THE PRESIDENT AND THE PRIME MINISTER ARE FULLY ALIGNED ON THAT.

>> OKAY, I UNDERSTAND ABOUT REMOVING THE NUCLEAR THREAT OBVIOUSLY.

BUT CLEARLY THIS DEEP REPORTING SUGGESTS THAT.

ONE WAY TO GET THAT DONE WAS REGIME CHANGE.

SO LET ME ASK YOU WHETHER YOU SAY IT WAS A GOAL OR NOT.

DOES ISRAEL STILL BELIEVE REGIME CHANGE IS IMPORTANT AND EVEN POSSIBLE?

>> YOU CAN ASK ME THAT QUESTION THREE DIFFERENT WAYS.

I HAVE NOTHING ON THAT.

I'M TELLING YOU WHAT WE HAVE WAS TO REMOVE THE SUBSTANTIAL THREAT OF THE NUCLEAR BOMB THAT IRAN WAS RUSHING TOWARDS TO DEGRADE THEIR MISSILE CAPABILITIES, AND TO CREATE THE CONDITIONS.

NOW THE ACHIEVEMENTS HAVE BEEN UNPRECEDENTED.

IRAN IS WEAKER THAN EVER.

AMERICA AND ISRAEL ARE STRONGER THAN EVER.

>> RIGHT.

LET'S GET BACK THEN TO LEBANON.

BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON WITH LEBANON.

IT'S ACTUALLY A PART OF THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING.

AND AFTER ALL THAT'S BEEN GOING ON THE LAST FEW MONTHS BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HEZBOLLAH, THEY HAVE BEEN U. S. BROKER TALKS.

THE LATEST TALKS IN ROME, AND NOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAYS THAT THESE SUCCESSFUL TALKS BETWEEN LEBANON AND ISRAEL.

THE GOVERNMENT OF LEBANON AND ISRAEL WILL LEAD TO ISRAEL, WITHDRAWING TROOPS FROM SOUTHERN LEBANON.

WHAT MORE COULD YOU GIVE ME ON THAT?

>> WHAT I CAN GIVE YOU ON THAT IS REACH A HISTORIC AGREEMENT WITH LEBANON, BROKERED BY THE UNITED STATES, BROKERED BY SECRETARY RUBIO.

WE REACHED A HISTORIC FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT, WHERE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 45 YEARS, LEBANON RECOGNIZES ISRAEL'S SOVEREIGNTY, AND AGREES LEBANON HAS TO BE FREE OF HEZBOLLAH.

WE HAVE TO DEMILITARIZE SOUTHERN LEBANON, AND WE HAVE TO HAVE HEZBOLLAH LAY DOWN THEIR HANDS.

WE DON'T HAVE A WAR WITH LEBANON.

WE HAVE A WAR WITH HEZBOLLAH THAT HAS BEEN HOLDING LEBANON HOSTAGE FOR 45 YEARS.

IT'S BECAUSE WE DEGRADED HEZBOLLAH SIGNIFICANTLY.

WE HIT THEM LIKE WE'VE NEVER HIT THEM BEFORE.

AFTER THEY ATTACKED US ON OCTOBER 8, 2023, WE HIT THEM BACK.

WE TOOK OUT 8,000 HEZBOLLAH TERRORISTS.

THEY HAD 150,000 MISSILES AIMED AT OUR CITY CENTERS, AT OUR CIVILIANS.

WE TOOK THAT DOWN TO A HANDFUL OF MISSILES, MAYBE 8,000 MISSILES.

WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT OUT TOO.

WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT NOW WITH THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT, DIRECT TALKS WITH THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT, WHEREBY WE AGREE.

HEZBOLLAH MUST LAY DOWN ITS ARMS, AND SOUTHERN LEBANON MUST BE DEMILITARIZED.

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S FINE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.

BUT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, DO YOU AGREE THERE WILL BE A WITHDRAW FROM SOUTHERN LEBANON BY ISRAELI FORCES PER THE STATE DEPARTMENT'S LATEST ANNOUNCEMENT?

>> WELL, ISRAEL IS FULLY AWARE OF THE NEED TO DEPLOY OR REDEPLOY WITHIN THE AGREED YEARS OF WHERE WE'RE HAVING TO PILOT NOW.

WE AGREE TO TWO YEARS WHERE THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT COULD APPROVE THEIR CAPABILITIES OF DISMANTLING HEZBOLLAH.

WE'LL HAVE THAT AS A TEST CASE.

TWO DIFFERENT PILOTS.

BUT IF WE LEARNED ONE THING, OUR NUMBER UNWITH LESSON FROM OCTOBER 7 THROUGH OCTOBER 7'S ATROCITIES, WHERE HAMAS BUTCHERED INNOCENT PEOPLE, RAPED WOMEN, BURNT BABIES ALIVE.

IF WE LEARNED ONE THING FROM THAT LESSON IS WE CANNOT HAVE GENOCIDAL TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS OR REGIMES ANYWHERE NEAR OUR BORDER.

NOT IN THE SOUTH WITH HAMAS AND NOT IN THE NORTH WITH HEZBOLLAH.

AND WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY IS WE'RE IMPLEMENTING THAT LESSON.

>> OKAY, JUST TO BE CLEAR BECAUSE IT IS, YOU KNOW, QUITE EMOTIONAL AS WELL.

THE IDF SAYS THIS IS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT WITHDRAW.

AS YOU SAY, THE PILOT AREAS ARE IN QUESTION THERE.

BUT THE WORD THEY'RE USING IS WITHDRAW.

SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

HOPEFULLY THAT'LL LEAD TO SOME PEACE IN THE REGION.

NOW, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL.

AS YOU'RE WELL AWARE, THERE IS A LOT OF TENSION RIGHT NOW.

NOT JUST BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP -- >> JUST A SECOND.

>> BUT --YEAH?

>> I'M JUST SAYING THE WORDING THAT --I'M SAYING THE WORDING THAT WAS USED, AND IF YOU READ THE FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT.

THE WORDING THAT'S USED IS REDEPLOY.

THE WORD WITHDRAW IS NEVER MENTIONED THERE.

WE COULD GO ON AND BE SEMANTIC ABOUT IT, BUT THE UNITED STATES EXPECTS WITHDRAW, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.

NOW, REGARDING THE U. S. AND ISRAEL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF AND HOW DO YOU RECOMMEND ISRAEL RESUME ITS CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES?

CLEARLY IT DOES HAVE ONE WITH THE GOVERNMENT.

BUT YOU SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AMONGST THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, OF THE UNITED STATES.

YOU SEE THE POLLS THAT ARE PLUMMETING IN TERMS OF SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL, LIKE THE HISTORIC SUPPORT HAS BEEN.

DO YOU THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME ACTION BY YOUR GOVERNMENT, PARTICULARLY COMING UP TO ELECTIONS?

BECAUSE THE WHOLE ISRAEL-U.

S. RELATIONSHIP IS VITAL, OF COURSE.

ARE THERE CHANGES TO BE MADE TO GET BACK ON AN EVEN KEEL?

THE WHOLE WAR, OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE MASSIVE ATTACKS, AND THEN ISRAEL'S WAR ON GAZA HAS CHANGED THE DYNAMIC BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> WELL, I THINK THE PRESIDENT JUST SAID WE HAVE HAD BETTER RELATIONS.

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND THE PRIME MINISTER IS FANTASTIC.

THEY'VE MET SEVEN TIMES SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS RE-ELECTED.

THERE WAS NEVER BETTER COORDINATION OR COOPERATION BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL OR BETWEEN THE ARMED FORCES.

THE ARMED FORCES OF ISRAEL, THE ARMED FORCES IN THE AMERICAN ARMED FORCES.

THERE'S NEVER BETTER COOPERATION OR COORDINATION.

AND WE ARE TRUE PARTNERS IN WAR AND TRUE PARTNERS IN PEACE.

NOW, YES, WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT DRIFTS IN PUBLIC OPINION.

BUT ALL WE CAN DO IS CONTINUE TO TELL THE TRUTH.

TO WIN THE WAR, WIN THE PEACE, AND TO CONTINUE TO TELL THE TRUTH.

>> I JUST NEED TO ASK YOU ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT THIS CLOSE RELATIONSHIP.

BUT WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED WITH A MEMBER OF THE U. S. CONGRESS WHO WAS IN THE WEST BANK, AND WHO WAS VERY SEVERELY AGGRESSED BY NOT JUST SETTLERS, BUT BY MEMBERS OF THE IDF, THE PRESIDENT OR OTHER PRIME MINISTER, NETANYAHU, CALLED THE WHOLE THING, YOU KNOW, JUVENILE DELINQUENT.

BUT THAT KIND OF THING DOESN'T LOOK GOOD TO THE AMERICAN CONSTITUENCY THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO APPEAL TO.

DO YOU THINK THAT WAS A MISTAKE FOR HIM TO BE TREATED LIKE THAT?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, AGAIN, I THINK WE SHOULD STICK TO THE FACTS.

THE AMERICAN EMBASSY OR THE AMERICAN EMBASSY-ISRAEL DEBUNKED THAT STORY COMPLETELY.

IT WAS ALL MADE UP.

AND I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO AMERICAN POLITICS.

I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE LEFT WING, ULTRA LEFT WING POLITICS IN THE UNITED STATES, AND WHAT EXACTLY WAS THE OBJECTIVE OF THIS CONGRESSMAN.

BUT THE STORY WAS FALSE.

NOW, THE JEWISH SETTLERS IN SUDAN ARE THE MOST LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS IN ISRAEL.

NOW, IT'S TRUE, THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF JUVENILE DELINQUENTS.

THEY DON'T COME FROM JUDAISM, THEY COME FROM OTHER PLACES, AND WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY VIGILANTE.

WE'RE A LAND OF LAW, ISRAEL IS THE LAND OF LAW, AND WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY VIGILANTE.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IS THE CRIME LEVEL IS MUCH LOWER THAN IT IS IN LONDON WHERE YOU'RE SITTING RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE STATS, BUT CERTAINLY IN THOSE AREAS, WHAT YOU CALL THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS THEN.

YOU SAY THEY'RE THE MOST LAW- ABIDING.

YOU KNOW A PALESTINIAN WAS KILLED LAST YEAR BY A SETTLER.

HIS DEATH WAS CAUGHT ON CAMERA.

HE WAS FATALLY KILLED BY AN ISRAELI, AND I'M NOT GOING TO PUT HIS NAME OUT.

I DON'T NEED TO.

DESPITE ALL THE EVIDENCE, HE HAS NOT BEEN INDICTED BY ISRAELI AUTHORITIES.

AND I'M GOING TO HAVE TO SAY THAT YOU SAY IT'S TOTALLY MADE UP AND A LIE, THIS STORY.

BUT THEY HAVE THEIR VERSION OF IT OUT THERE AS WELL.

SO ABOUT THE PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED OF MURDERING A PALESTINIAN.

WHY WOULD THEY NOT BE HELD UP TO THE LAW, IF YOU SAY THEY'RE THE MOST LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE?

>> WELL, ISRAEL DOES HOLD UP THE LAW AND THEY ARE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

ANYBODY THAT BREAKS THE LAW IS BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

THAT INCIDENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT I'M NOT FULLY FAMILIAR WITH, I'M SURE WAS INVESTIGATED AND WILL BE INVESTIGATED IN FULL.

JUST TODAY, HOWEVER, JUST TODAY, YOU'RE NOT MENTIONING THAT.

BUT JUST TODAY, A JEWISH SETTLER WAS ALMOST STONED TO DEATH.

THAT HAPPENS DAILY.

PALESTINIANS TERROR AGAINST THE JEWISH COMMUNITY HAPPENS DAILY.

THE FACT YOU'RE BRINGING AN INCIDENT FROM A YEAR AGO THAT HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED AND WILL BE INVESTIGATED.

IF THE LAW WAS BROKEN, PEOPLE WILL BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

BUT THE FACT YOU'RE BRINGING SOMETHING FROM A YEAR AGO TELLS A BIG STORY.

>> WELL, NO, NO, TO BE FAIR, I TALKED ABOUT THIS, WHICH WAS NOT A YEAR AGO.

BUT LOOK, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

I APPRECIATE YOU BEING ON THE PROGRAM, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THANK YOU.

> >> THE GROWING TENSION IN THE STRAIGHT OF HORMUZ MEANS RENEWED RISK ON THE GLOBAL ECONOMY SPARKING NEW FEARS OF SURGING INFLATION AND MIXED MESSAGES FROM WASHINGTON, INCLUDING THIS WEEK'S FLIP-FLOP FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP, HIMSELF, ON IMPOSING FEES ON CARGO IN THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

THESE ARE ALL RATTLING ALLIES.

THEY ARE NOW SHIFTING THEIR STRATEGIC RELIANCE AWAY FROM WASHINGTON, DEALING WITH WHAT THE CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER, MARK CARNEY, HAS CALLED A RUPTURE IN THE WORLD ORDER.

NOW JOINING US TO DISCUSS THIS IS LESLIE, THE FOREIGN POLICY SCHOLAR AND HEAD OF THE CHICAGO COUNCIL ON GLOBAL AFFAIRS.

YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD THE SENIOR FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER TO NETANYAHU.

REGIME CHANGE, I THOUGHT WAS A KEY STATED OBJECTIVE?

>> YOU KNOW, IN THE BEGINNING BACK LATE FEBRUARY, THERE WERE MULTIPLE OBJECTIVES.

THERE WERE SO MANY OBJECTIVES THAT IT WASN'T CLEAR WHAT THE PLAN WAS AND WHAT THE GOAL WAS.

THERE WAS CERTAINLY A POINT WHEN THERE WAS A TALK ABOUT REGIME CHANGE.

YOU KNOW, TO BE VERY CLEAR, AMERICANS HAVE ALMOST NO APPETITE, MOST AMERICANS, FOR REGIME CHANGE, AND THAT GOES BACK A VERY LONG WAY.

BUT FEBRUARY 28 WAS A LONG TIME AGO.

AS WE KNOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS FAIRLY HOT ON THE HEELS OF HAVING TAKEN MADURO OUT OF VENEZUELA, SO THINGS HAVE MOVED VERY QUICKLY.

>> SO IT'S MOVED TO NOW AFTER SIX MONTHS OR SO TO THIS POINT, WHICH IS WHERE WE'RE AT.

IT WAS FIVE DAYS, AT LEAST AN EXCHANGE OF FIRE AND IN SOME CASES, VERY HEAVY FIRE.

ALL CENTERED, NOT NECESSARILY ON REGIME CHANGE.

NOT EVEN NECESSARILY ON THE NUCLEAR PART, BUT ON THE STATUS OF THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT EXACTLY IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AS PRESIDENT TRUMP LAUNCHES MILITARY STRIKES?

THE IRANIANS FIRE BACK.

THERE'S TALK, WELL, THE AMERICANS HAVE REIMPOSED THE NAVAL BLOCKADE TO PRESSURE THE IRANIANS TO GET BACK TO THE TABLE.

DESCRIBE WHAT YOU THINK IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING NOW.

>> WELL FIRST OF ALL, IT'S A LOT OF DISRUPTION, CHAOS, AND LACK OF A CLEAR STRATEGIC PLAN THAT'S BEING IMPLEMENTED IN A SEQUENCE THAT SEEMS, THAT CLEARLY DOESN'T SEEM TO BE RATIONALLY DRIVEN.

YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A PLAN.

THERE'S A LOT OF REACTION.

BUT THE WAY I SEE IT IS THAT AS YOU JUST SAID, IT'S COME DOWN TO IF IT STARTED OUT AS BEING MAYBE ABOUT REGIME CHANGE, MAYBE ABOUT IRAN'S NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES.

IT'S CERTAINLY WHITTLED DOWN TO BEING VERY MUCH ABOUT GETTING THAT TRAFFIC THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AND FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP BEING ABLE TO DO THAT WHILE NOT SEEDING THE GROUND TO IRAN.

AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IRAN HAS GAINED A LOT OF LEVERAGE THROUGH THEIR ABILITY NOW TO WEAPONIZE THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

AND I THINK THAT WE FELT FOR A PERIOD OF TIME THAT THE CEASE- FIRE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS IN EVERYBODY'S INTEREST, INCLUDING PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND I THINK WHAT HE'S REALIZED IS FROM HIS OWN PERSPECTIVE, NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO USE LEVERAGE AND THE BLOCKADE, IN ORDER TO NOT COMPLETELY SEE CONTROL, IT MAY TURN ON AGAIN OR ACCESS TO THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

>> AND IT IS NOT AN ISSUE BEFORE THE WAR WAS LAUNCHED.

BY THE SAME TOKEN, IRAN WAS UNDER VERY DIRE PRESSURE AT HOME.

ITS ECONOMY WAS VERY BAD.

AND IT SAYS THE WAR HAS CAUSED $270 BILLION IN DAMAGE, AND THE ECONOMY IS WHAT'S LAUNCHED THE PROTEST AGAINST THE REGIME BACK IN DECEMBER, JANUARY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE INTERNAL DYNAMICS THAT APPEAR TO BE SHOWING UP INSIDE IRAN RIGHT NOW WITH A VERY HARD LINER, WANTING TO KEEP TAKING THE WAR TO THE UNITED STATES, WITH THE NEGOTIATORS, SLIGHTLY LESS HARD LINERS.

UNDERSTANDING THEY'RE GOT ISSUES AND WANTING ALSO A NEGOTIATED END TO ALL OF THIS?

>> YEAH, LOOK.

I CAN SPEAK FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND WHAT I WOULD ESTIMATE IS HE SEES THAT DIVISION.

HE LOVES TO PLAY ON WEAKNESS AND DRIVE A WEDGE, IF THERE IS ONE TO BE DRIVEN IN THE GAP THAT'S OPENING UP INTERNALLY WITHIN IRAN, AS YOU'VE SUGGESTED.

AND THAT WOULD BE A REASON FOR HIM TO DOUBLE BACK DOWN TO PUT THAT BLOCKADE BACK TO STRIKE.

THE TRAGIC THING FOR THE PEOPLE OF IRAN IS NOW WE'RE LISTENING TO THE U. S. PRESIDENT THREATEN TO HIT POWER PLANTS, CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

I MEAN, THINGS THAT ARE FAR BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF ANYTHING APPROACHING ADHERENCE TO INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW.

NOT SOMETHING WE TALK ABOUT VERY MUCH ANYMORE.

BUT IT'S LEVERAGE AND IT'S LEVERAGE PLAYING ON WEAKNESS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP, FOR HIM, THIS IS QUITE FRANKLY BREAD AND BUTTER TACTICS.

>> OF COURSE, THOSE THREATS WERE SIMILAR ONES PRESIDENT TRUMP MADE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO AND DIDN'T CARRY THEM OUT.

BUT AS YOU SAY, IT'S LEVERAGE.

DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES THINKS THEY COULD ADD TO THE PROBLEMS OF THE ECONOMIC BLOCKADE BY BLOCKING THE SORT OF GATEWAY TO THE RED SEA?

WE UNDERSTAND THAT SAUDI ARABIA HAS LAUNCHED AN ATTACK, IN ORDER TO GIVE A MESSAGE THAT IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN.

BUT DO YOU SEE IRAN ENGAGING THOSE PROXIES?

>> LOOK, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

IT LOOKS LIKE ALLEGEDLY, POSSIBLY THE UNITED STATES GAVE LICENSE TO SAUDI TO RESPOND.

AGAIN, I THINK THIS IS EVIDENCE, NOT OF THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION RIGHT NOW.

MY ORGANIZATION KNOWS A LOT ABOUT WHAT THE PUBLIC THINKS, THE PUBLIC OR NOT IS HAPPY ABOUT THIS WAR.

THEY'RE NOT SUPPORTIVE OF ISRAEL.

THEY'RE NOT SUPPORTIVE OF THE WAR.

YOU NAME IT.

THEY'RE NOT ON SIDE.

THE PRESIDENT TRUMP OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE RISK OF ESCALATION.

AT LEAST HIS BEHAVIOR DOES NOT SUGGEST.

HE'S CLEARLY CONCERNED IRAN COULD DOUBLE DOWN ON ITS USE OF PROXIES, AGAIN, IN THE REGION.

HE'S CLEARLY WORRIED HE'S LOSING.

HE HAS BEEN LOSING, NOT STRICTLY IT IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S ABILITY TO WEAKEN IRAN MILITARILY.

THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT HAS DONE THAT.

BUT IN TERMS OF ACHIEVING WHAT IT WANTS TO ACHIEVE, WHICH IS OPEN SEAS WHEN IT COMES TO THE STRAIT AND AMERICA'S FEELING.

THIS PRESIDENT FEELING THEY HAVE THE UPPER HAND.

AND YES, WHAT YOU POINTED TO IS CLEARLY EVIDENCE THAT ALL IS NOT WELL, AND IRAN IS POTENTIALLY TURNING TO OLD TACTICS IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THEY'RE TAKING THE BAIT.

> >> AND WHAT ABOUT THE UNITED STATES AND ITS NATO ALLIES?

IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE ANCHOR SUMMIT, A LOT OF CHAT IS GOING ON ABOUT WHETHER THEY SHOULD DO --WHAT THEY WERE STAYING CLOSE TO PRESIDENT TRUMP OR THE MACRON MODE OF TRYING TO BE SELF-SUFFICIENT.

LET ME -- LET ME READ YOU SOMETHING FROM UNDER THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.

HE HAS BEEN TALKING AND RESPONDING TO CARNEY OF CANADA, THE PRIME MINISTER, CALLING FOR THE SO-CALLED MIDDLE POWERS TO HAVE A STRATEGY.

SO THIS IS COLBY.

WE ARE NOT CONCERNED THIS IS A SERIOUS POSSIBILITY.

RATHER WE ARE MORE CONCERNED A FEW ALLIES AND PARTNERS WILL THINK IT IS AND WASTE VALUABLE TIME, MONEY, POLITICAL CAPITAL ON A DISTRACTION.

SIMPLE FACT OF THE MATTER IS NO ALTERNATIVE COUNTRY, OLD COUNTRIES CAN COMPETE WITH THE UNITED STATES DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL SPACE.

EITHER IN QUANTITY OR QUALITY.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> I MEAN, I THINK QUITE FRANKLY, THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND QUITE FRANKLY PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS CONTINUE TO SEND MIXED SIGNALS.

THEY WISH EUROPE TO DO MORE, SPEND MORE, BE MORE INDEPENDENT, BE MORE RELIABLE, BE MORE CONSISTENT.

BUT WHEN THERE'S EVIDENCE AS THERE IS NOW THAT EUROPE IS MOVING VERY MUCH TO DO THAT.

GREATER DEFENSE SPENDING ON THE PART OF AMERICA'S EUROPEAN NATO ALLIES.

GREATER INCREASED THIS YEAR THAN IN ANY POINT SINCE 1953.

WHEN THEY DO THAT, THERE IS A REAL CONCERN EUROPE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE STRONG ENOUGH TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE SEPARATE OR DIFFERENT FROM THE UNITED STATES.

I GUESS THE SECOND THING I'LL SAY, HE'S NOT WRONG.

IN THE CURRENT MOMENT, HE'S NOT WRONG THAT THE UNITED STATES IS MASSIVELY AHEAD, ESPECIALLY IF WE RECOGNIZE THE FACT, WHICH IS EUROPE IS NOT EUROPE.

EUROPE IS A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT STATES THAT ARE WORKING VERY HARD TO TRY AND HAVE JOINT PROCUREMENT ABILITY TO SPEND MORE IN WAYS THAT ARE COMPLIMENTARY WITHIN EUROPE.

THAT'S AN ASPIRATION, AND THEY ARE MOVING TOWARDS IT.

BUT THEY KNOW THEY HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION.

THE REASON IT'S NOT CLEAR IS WHAT THE STRATEGY SHOULD BE.

FIRST OF ALL, TRUMP IS DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH.

WE KNOW THAT.

DIFFERENT STRATEGIES WORK IN DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES ON DIFFERENT DAYS.

BUT ALSO EUROPE HAS TO SPEND MORE, BUILD MORE, KEEP AMERICA IN.

BUT PLAY THAT LONG-TERM GAME ALSO, WHICH IS TO BE TRULY INDEPENDENT.

THERE'S A LOT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THAT HOPEFUL MOMENT WHEN EUROPEANS ARE ALIGNED INTERNALLY AND MORE INDEPENDENT.

ONE THING I HOPE CHANGES IS AMERICAN LEADERSHIP AND AMERICA'S PREFERENCES FOR WHAT IT WANTS FROM EUROPE AND HOW IT SEEKS TO GOVERN.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, I THINK IT WILL CHANGE.

>> REALLY INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LESLIE VINJAMURI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

> >> NOW, THREE WEEKS AFTER THE EARTHQUAKES IN VENEZUELA, ANGER KEEPS RISING AS THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSE TO THE DISASTER.

CONTRIBUTOR REPORTS FROM THE CENTER OF THE QUAKES.

>> Reporter: THREE WEEKS SINCE VENEZUELA WAS HIT BY EARTHQUAKES, IT IS FAR TOO EARLY TO EVEN THINK OF TURNING THE PAGE.

ACCORDING TO GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, MORE THAN 4,500 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED.

MANY WILL REST NAMELESS HERE IN A MASS GRAVEYARD, EXPANDED LAST WEEK.

IT'S CLOSE TO THE DISASTER ZONE.

THE TRUE DEATH TOLL, WE MAY NEVER KNOW.

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE STILL LOOKING FOR MISSING LOVED ONES.

IT IS JUST ONE OF SEVERAL QUESTIONS THROWN AT LOCAL AUTHORITIES.

THE U. S. BACKED ACTING PRESIDENT, RODRIGUEZ, WHO HAS BEEN IN POWER SINCE JANUARY, IS BEING CRITICIZED FOR A DELAYED AND INSUFFICIENT RESPONSE TO THE MOST DEVASTATING NATURAL DISASTER OUR COUNTRY HAS FACED IN THE CENTURY.

>> Reporter: BUT THE GOVERNMENT'S REASSURANCES, INCLUDING THE DEPLOYMENT OF 19,000 MILITARY OFFICIALS DOES NOT SQUARE WITH OUR OWN EXPERIENCE ON THE GROUND IN VENEZUELA.

>> THESE USED TO BE A GOLF COURSE.

IT WAS BY THE CARIBBEAN SEA.

SO HERE IS WHERE TOURISTS WILL COME AND PLAY GOLF AND RELAX.

NOW, OF COURSE, IT'S A TENT CITY FOR HUNDREDS DISPLACED.

MANY ACTUALLY USED TO LIVE THERE IN THOSE BLOCKS.

EVERY DAY THEY WAKE UP, SEEING THEIR HOMES AND FLATS BROKEN DOWN BY THE BRUTALITY OF THE EARTHQUAKES.

>> Reporter: IT IS HERE WE MET HER.

BUT BACK THEN, SHE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO SEE HER SON IN TEN DAYS.

THEY WERE SEPARATED IN THE AFTERMATHS OF THE QUAKE.

HER 7-YEAR-OLD, XAVIER, WAS TRAPPED UNDER THE RUBBLE.

>> Reporter: SO THIS DAY, ZOY STILL DOESN'T KNOW WHERE HER SON IS.

NOTHING REMAINS OF THEIR HOME.

A VAST HOUSING COMPLEX BUILT BY RODRIGUEZ'S PREDECESSOR, HUGO CHAVEZ.

THIS YEAR'S EARTHQUAKE, JUST THE LATEST IN THE SEEMINGLY NEVER ENDING RUN OF TRAGEDIES SUFFERED BY THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE.

A FEW DAYS AFTER THE TREMORS, WE MET ONE PERSON WHOSE LIFE CHRONICLED THAT STRUGGLE.

LIKE SO MANY, 45-YEAR-OLD PRIMARY SCHOOLTEACHER, GUTIERREZ, IMMIGRATED IN 2018, SEEKING BETTER OPPORTUNITIES AND A DECENT SALARY TO SUPPORT HER FAMILY.

SHE LIVED IN PERU, ACROSS THE JUNGLE, AND MOVED TO THE U. S. IN THE FOLLOWING YEARS.

JUST AS VENEZUELA'S INFRASTRUCTURE FELL INTO DISREPAIR.

LISTENING TO HER IS LIKE LEAVING THOUSANDS OF STORIES I COVERED AS A FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS.

THE VENEZUELA ECONOMY COLLAPSED UNDER NICOLAS MADURO.

THE EXODUS TO OTHER COUNTRIES INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES, AND A CRACKDOWN ON UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANTS UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

LAST MONTH, WAS DETAINED BY MIAMI POLICE OVER AN INCIDENT, AND CHARGED WITH A MISDEMEANOR, DEPORTED TO CARACAS JUST HOURS BEFORE THE QUAKE HIT.

SHE WAS RESTING, UNABLE TO HELP WHEN THE GROUND STARTED SHAKING.

>> Reporter: INCREDIBLY MADE IT OUT OF THE HOTEL ALIVE.

AND YET IT IS A DROP IN THE OCEAN.

THE COASTAL ERODING IS NOW LINED WITH DEBRIS OF COLLAPSED BUILDINGS.

THE WAVES OF THE CARIBBEAN SEA, CRASHING ON THE REMAINS OF SO MANY LIVES SHATTERED.

FOR THOSE WHO SURVIVED IT, IT IS NOW TIME TO PICK UP THE PIECES.

LOOKING SOMEHOW TO REBUILD A LIFE.

>> SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO AGE IN AMERICA WHEN BASIC TASKS LIKE BATHING, GROCERY SHOPPING, PAYING BILLS BECOME JUST TOO DIFFICULT.

WHO CAN THE ELDERLY TURN TO FOR HELP?

PROFESSIONAL ASSISTANCE IN NURSING FACILITIES ARE EXPENSIVE.

SO MORE THAN 80% OF AMERICANS OVER 65 RELY ON FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

AND AS OFTEN, LUCY SCHILLER KNOWS WELL, IT'S NO SMALL TASK.

HER NEW BOOK, "AGING OUT," DRAWS ON HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, CARING FOR HER OWN GRANDMOTHER DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

AND SHE SPEAKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT REALITIES OF IT TODAY.

>> Reporter: THANKS.

LUCY SCHILLER, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU'VE WRITTEN A BOOK RECENTLY CALLED, "AGING OUT, AN EXPLORATION OF CARE GIVING COMMUNITY AND HOW AMERICANS GROW OLD. "

NOW, IT TAKES A GOOD DEEP DIVE INTO WHAT I WOULD CALL THE ELDER CARE INDUSTRY IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT IT WAS PERSONAL.

WHY DID YOU START THIS?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

ONE OF THE REASONS I STARTED IT WAS BECAUSE I REALIZED I KNEW ALMOST NOTHING ABOUT THE DAILY REALITIES OF WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE AN OLDER PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND THE MAIN WAY I KIND OF REALIZED IS THAT LEVEL OF IGNORANCE IN MYSELF WAS BY HELPING TO TAKE CARE ONE OF MY GRANDMOTHERS IN THE BEGINNING OF THE COVID PANDEMIC.

WE TOOK HER OUT OF THE LIVING ASSISTED COMMUNITY.

I MOVED UP KIND OF THE ONLY PERSON IN MY FAMILY WITHOUT A JOB, SO VERY CONVENIENT.

I MOVED UP AND LIVED WITH HER FOR A FEW MONTHS, AND SAW FIRSTHAND SOME OF THE REALITIES OF WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE AN OLDER PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY.

I ALSO KIND OF REALIZED I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE INNER WORKINGS OF WHERE SHE HAD BEEN LIVING FOR THE PAST TEN OR SO YEARS, YOU KNOW.

I VISITED THE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY ON OCCASION.

BUT THAT IS A FAR CRY, YOU KNOW, FROM ACTUALLY RESIDING INSIDE OF IT.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

IN THE LANGUAGE OF ELDER CARE, SHE NEEDED HELP WITH HER ADLs, HER ACTIVITY OF DAILY LIVES.

SHE NEEDED SOMEONE TO MASSAGE HER FEET TO HELP PUT ON HER SHOES TO MAKE HER FOOD AND DO HER LAUNDRY, TO KEEP HER PLACE CLEAN, TO GO GET GROCERIES TO STAY ON TOP OF THE MANY MEDICATIONS AND HEALTH NEEDS TO MAKE DOCTORS APPOINTMENTS AND GET HER TO THEM.

AND THIS WAS YOUR FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH THIS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.

SO MANY PEOPLE, JUST READING THAT LIST ALONE WOULD SAY, WOW.

THAT'S A LOT.

THAT'S A FULL-TIME JOB.

AND YET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CARING FOR SO MANY OF THEIR LOVED ONES IN THIS COUNTRY ARE DOING THAT IN ADDITION TO A FULL-TIME JOB.

>> YEAH, VERY OFTEN, AND MAYBE IN ADDITION TO RAISING THEIR OWN KIDS OR ANY NUMBER OF OBLIGATIONS THAT THEY MAY HAVE.

SO IT IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK.

IT IS ALSO, I WOULD SAY, A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK JUST BEING AN OLDER PERSON AND NEEDING THAT LEVEL OF HELP OR EVEN JUST KIND OF WANTING, YOU KNOW, FAMILY CLOSE BY OR A LOVED ONE OF SOME CLOSE BY TO CONNECT WITH AND TALK THROUGH THIS REALLY INTERESTING AND COMPLEX PHASE OF LIFE WITH.

>> YOU ALSO POINT OUT CULTURALLY, WE STILL, I MEAN, WHILE WE SAY WE RESPECT OUR ELDERS AND WE WANT THEIR WISDOM.

HAS A PART OF SOCIETY, WE STILL SEE THEM AS A COST.

NOT NECESSARILY AS A BENEFIT.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

WE CAN LOOK AT THE WORD ENTITLEMENT.

BUT THAT'S A WAY IN WHICH PEOPLE REFER TO SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

I KNOW IT IS AN ENTITLEMENT, BUT THAT WORD SORT OF HAS A DOUBLE MEANING, WHICH COULD BE NASTY OR POINT TOWARDS AN IDEA OR A SENSE THAT OLDER PEOPLE ARE ENTERING SOCIETY.

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING WHEN STARTING TO WRITE THIS BOOK BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE NOT ONLY WAS THAT COMING INTO THIS TOPIC WITH MY GRANDMOTHERS, BUT I ALSO FELT LIKE ALL OF A SUDDEN, THERE IS THIS REALLY SENTIMENT IN THE AIR.

THIS ANTIBOOMER RHETORIC, WHICH HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE, AND I'M REMEMBERING IN THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE WOULD TALK ABOUT THE BOOMER REMOVER THAT COVID WAS.

BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, JUST THIS IDEA, WHICH IS KIND OF AN OLD CURRENT IN AMERICAN LIFE OF OLDER PEOPLE BEING A DRAIN ON SOCIETY AND SPECIFICALLY TAKING RESOURCES AWAY FROM YOUNGER PEOPLE.

THERE IS ACTUALLY A LONG HISTORY OF THIS TYPE OF ARGUMENT IN AMERICAN CULTURE AND AMERICAN POLITICS.

SOCIAL SECURITY PROGRAMS AND MEDICARE PROGRAMS, AND I THINK IT VERY OFTEN HAS BEEN USED ACTUALLY TO FIGHT AGAINST SOCIAL PROGRAMS AND SOCIAL WELFARE PROGRAMS IN GENERAL.

>> IT IS A NATIONAL MEDIAN COST FOR SEMI-PRIVATE ROOM IN A NURSING HOME WAS $110,000 A YEAR IN 2025.

HELP IRANIANS KIND OF EXPLAIN THE LAY OF THE LAND HERE.

HOW DID THIS BECOME A FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY?

WHO OWNS IT?

WHO IS PROFITING?

GIVE ME AN IDEA OF WHEN PEOPLE GET OLD IN THIS COUNTRY IN GENERAL WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THEM AND WHERE ARE THEY GOING?

>> YEAH, SO MEDICARE WAS PASSED IN THE LATE 60s.

AND WITH THE PASSAGE OF MEDICARE, THERE WAS A HUGE SUDDEN SPRINGING UP OF NURSING HOMES, AND THE NURSING HOME INDUSTRY.

A LOT HAS CHANGED KIND OF LIKE CLIFF NOTES VERSIONS.

THERE WAS A MOVEMENT, PARTICULARLY IN THE 70s IN RESPONSE TO CONDITIONS IN THESE EARLY NURSING HOMES TO MAKE SURE NURSING HOMES WERE ACTUALLY PLACES THAT OFFER GOOD QUALITY CARE AND DIDN'T, IN FACT MAYBE EVEN GET PEOPLE MORE SICK THAN THEY WERE WHEN THEY ENTERED AND WERE, YOU KNOW, SOLID PLACES IN WHICH AN OLDER PERSON WITH DISABILITY COULD RECEIVE QUALITY CARE.

SINCE THEN, THERE'S BEEN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES IN THE RISE OF THE LIVING FACILITIES.

SO WITH NURSING HOMES, GENERALLY YOU PAY FOR THOSE VIA MEDICAID.

YOU HEAR ALL THESE STORIES, RIGHT, ABOUT PEOPLE HAVING TO SPEND DOWN IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID IN ORDER TO ENTER A NURSING HOME.

WHAT THAT MIGHT MEAN IS YOU MIGHT HAVE TO SELL YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER TO GET INTO A NURSING HOME.

NURSING HOMES COULD BE FOR PROFIT.

THEY COULD BE NON-PROFIT.

THERE'S A WHOLE RANGE OF THEM.

THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, YEUN FORMALLY BAD OR YEUN FORMAL UNIFORMALLY.

THERE'S PRIVATE EQUITY NOW IN THAT SPACE.

ASSISTED LIVING IS ANOTHER PART OF THAT LANDSCAPE.

WITH ASSISTED LIVING, YOU HAVE TO GO WITH WHAT'S CALLED PRIVATE PAY.

IF YOU'RE ENTERING AN ASSISTED LIVING GENERALLY SPEAKING.

IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE, BUT VERY MUCH THE MAJORITY OF THE CASE OF THE TIME, YOU'RE PAYING OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET.

THESE PLACES COULD BE EXPENSIVE.

>> GIVE ME AN IDEA OF HOW MUCH.

>> ANYWHERE FROM PROBABLY LOWER END, $5,000 A MONTH TO WAY, WAY HIGHER THAN THAT.

THERE IS ALSO WHAT ARE CALLED CONTINUING CARE RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES, WHICH THAT'S THE TYPE OF THING SOMETIMES PEOPLE THINK OF, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY THINK OF AGING IN A REALLY NICE PLACE.

YOU ENTER, YOU PAY A LOT OF MONEY.

YOU ENTER AT A CERTAIN AGE THAT YOU AGREED UPON, KIND OF CONTRACTUALLY WITH THIS PLACE, AND THEN YOU SORT OF AGE THERE WITH WHATEVER YOUR BODY DECIDES TO DO.

MAYBE YOU NEED TO GO INTO A MEMORY CARE FACILITY.

MAYBE YOU DON'T NEED TOO MUCH HELP.

EITHER WAY, YOU'RE KIND OF SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WITH ALL SORTS OF EXPERIENCES OF OLDNESS IN THERE.

AND THEN FINALLY, AGING IN PLACE.

WHAT THAT TERM TENDS TO MEAN IS YOU'RE AT HOME, AND THAT YOU'RE NOT IN A FACILITY OF SOME KIND.

YOU ARE AGING IN A PLACE OF YOUR OWN KIND OF DESIRE AND MAYBE FAMILIARITY.

SO THERE'S BEEN AN INCREASE IN KIND OF STATE SUPPORT IN SOME WAYS FOR THAT OPTION.

THERE ARE CERTAIN PLACES THAT, YOU KNOW, HELP YOU INSTALL GRAB BARS IN YOUR BATHROOM, IF THAT IS SOMETHING YOU NEED.

OR PROVIDE YOU WITH REIMBURSEMENT FOR CARE TAKING, CARE GIVING SERVICES.

PEOPLE COMING INTO YOUR HOME.

>> THERE IS MEDICARE, AND THAT IS, YOU KNOW, THE OPTION THAT SO MANY PEOPLE GET BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT QUALIFYING.

THEY DON'T HAVE LOW ENOUGH INCOME FOR MEDICAID.

WITHIN MEDICARE, THERE'S A BIG FORK IN THE ROAD OF MEDICARE AND MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS.

FOR MOST PEOPLE, AGAIN, THAT ARE NOT IN THAT PART OF LIFE YET, HAVEN'T DONE THE HOMEWORK.

WHAT'S THE BIG DIFFERENCE AND WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THIS?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

SO FIRST OF ALL, I'LL JUST NOTE THAT MEDICARE DOES NOT COVER LONG-TERM CARE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT VERY OFTEN SURPRISES EVEN OLDER PEOPLE THEMSELVES WHEN THEY GET TO A MOMENT OF NEEDING TO SUDDENLY PAY FOR LONG-TERM CARE.

SO THAT'S A REALLY KIND OF IMPORTANT BASIC FACT HERE.

MEDICARE ADVANTAGE IS WHAT I WOULD CALL THE PRIVATIZED ARM OF MEDICARE.

SO MEDICARE, AS YOU SAID, IT'S A PUBLIC PROGRAM.

THERE'S ONE MEDICARE.

THERE ARE ABOUT 4,000 MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS.

AND WHAT THESE ARE ARE INSURANCE COMPANY BROKERAGE PRIVATE PLANS THAT STILL BILL MEDICARE, THE PUBLIC INSURANCE OPTION FOR PEOPLE FOR THEIR SERVICES.

MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS HAVE BEEN REPORTED, YOU KNOW, TO BE DRAINING THE MEDICARE FUND, PARTICULARLY COMING FROM A NEW YORK TIMES REPORT ON IT.

INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT ARE USING AND SELLING MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS, DEVELOPING THESE KIND OF SYSTEMS TO MAKE PATIENTS APPEAR AS SICK AS POSSIBLE AND THEN BILL ACCORDINGLY.

DENIALS OF CARE IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS ARE RELATIVELY HIGH.

OFTEN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS ARE HEAVILY MARKETED TO PEOPLE AND PARTICULARLY, I SAW A STUDY THAT UNDERLINES THEY'RE VERY OFTEN MARKETED TO BLACK AND HISPANIC PATIENTS.

THEY ALSO ARE VERY OFTEN INVOLVING WHAT WE ARE PROBABLY ALL FAMILIAR WITH AT THIS POINT, THE PRIOR AUTHORIZATION THAT YOU NEED TO BE AUTHORIZED BY YOUR DOCTOR OR YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY RATHER FOR A PARTICULAR PROCEDURE BEFORE THEY DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GOING TO REIMBURSE YOU.

A LOT OF REPORTING HAS BEEN DONE ON THIS THAT MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS, THERE ARE MANY STORIES OUT THERE ABOUT PEOPLE SUDDENLY REALIZING THEIR SURGERY ISN'T GOING TO BE COVERED BY THIS PLAN THAT HAS OFFERED THEM ALL OF THESE WONDERFUL FREEBIES.

THEY COULD BE ANYTHING FROM INCREDIBLY AFFORDABLE AND CHEAP TO INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE.

I WOULD SAY THE PERSONALIZED PRIVATIZED VERSION OF MEDICARE.

SO YOU CAN REALLY KIND OF CHOOSE ALMOST AN A LA CARTE TYPE OPTION, WHAT YOU WANT FROM YOUR INSURANCE PLAN, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S GOING TO WORK FOR YOU DOWN THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, FINGERS CROSSED.

>> HOW DOES AGING IN THE OPTIONS YOU HAVE IN AMERICA DIFFER BASED ON YOUR RACE OR YOUR INCOME LEVEL OR YOUR GENDER?

>> WELL, STATISTICALLY, THE PEOPLE WHO TEND TO MAKE IT TO OLD AGE ARE WHITE WOMEN.

SO THAT'S A PRETTY IMPORTANT FACT TO CONSIDER.

IN MY BOOK, A REVIEWER JUST POINTED THIS OUT, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS A REALLY SMART POINT.

THAT A LOT OF MY SUBJECTS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO I'M SPEAKING WITH IN THE BOOK ARE WOMEN.

BUT YOUR CLASS REALLY, REALLY INFLUENCES YOUR EXPERIENCE AS AN OLDER PERSON.

SO, YOU KNOW, FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU'RE ON MEDICAID, THAT IS GOING TO WHITTLE YOUR OPTIONS IN A PARTICULAR DIRECTION WHEN IT COMES TO LONG-TERM CARE, YOU KNOW, THAT MEANS YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO GET INTO A NURSING HOME.

BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO BE GOING INTO AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY OR A CONTINUING CARE RETIREMENT COMMUNITY, BOTH OF WHICH ARE KIND OF THE PROVINCE OF MORE MONEY TO PEOPLE.

AND IT'S A PART OF MY BOOK.

YOU KNOW, I TOURED SOME OF THESE PLACES.

I HAD THIS STRANGE EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE IN A CONTINUING CARE RETIREMENT COMMUNITY BECAUSE I JUST FELT LIKE NO ONE I KNOW IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

THIS IS AMAZING.

IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

IT'S LIKE ALL OF THESE OLDER PEOPLE.

THERE WAS A WOOD WORKING SHOP.

THERE WAS A SWIMMING POOL.

THERE WERE PEOPLE MAINTAINING THE GARDENS OUTSIDE.

IT'S A PLACE WHERE RESIDENTS REALLY RUN THE PLACE.

IT'S LIKE VERY INSISTENT ON RESIDENT AUTONOMY AND SELF-DIRECTION.

AND I THOUGHT THIS IS THE IDEAL, YOU KNOW?

IF YOU'RE DECIDING TO LIVE IN A COMMUNITY RATHER THAN NECESSARILY AGE IN PLACE INSIDE YOUR OWN HOME.

AND YET, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE FINANCIALLY OUT OF REACH FOR NEARLY EVERYONE THAT I KNOW, MYSELF INCLUDED.

>> YOU KNOW, I WONDER IF --DID YOU FIGURE OUT WHY WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT AGING AS MUCH OR WHY?

WE JUST DON'T TALK ABOUT IT MORE.

IT'S NOT A PART OF THE SOCIAL CONVERSATION?

>> I THINK A RELUCTANCE TO TALK ABOUT DISABILITY IN PUBLIC LIFE.

YOU KNOW, AGING VERY OFTEN INCLUDES SOME LEVEL OF DISABILITY.

THAT'S SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL IN THIS COUNTRY FEEL UNSURE ABOUT HOW TO TALK ABOUT FOR THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW?

OR MAYBE FOR A LOVED ONE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF INK HAS BEEN SPELLED ABOUT WHAT KIND OF YOUTH OBSESSED WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH I THINK IS TRUE.

BUT I THINK THERE IS ALSO A PRODUCTIVITY OBSESSION IN THIS COUNTRY.

BUT I THINK THERE IS A REAL DISCOMFORT THAT WAS RELAXED.

WITH STOPPING WORK AND HOW TO FEEL LIKE A MEMBER OF SOCIETY WHEN YOU'RE NO LONGER IN THE WORKFORCE.

AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NO LONGER IN THE WORKFORCE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A DISABILITY AND YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, A PART OF THE WORKPLACE THAT YOU ONCE WERE.

OR MAYBE, MAYBE YOU'RE RETIRED.

OR MAYBE YOU'RE JUST IN A DIFFERENT LIFE PHASE.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS UNIQUELY AMERICAN PROBLEM IN SOME WAYS.

IS THERE SOMETHING WE COULD ADOPT?

ARE THERE COUNTRIES DOING IT BETTER?

WHAT IS A GOOD IDEA WE COULD STEAL?

>> UM, WELL, TO BE HONEST, I WOULD JUST SAY UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE ACROSS THE SPECTRUM WOULD BE A WONDERFUL PLACE TO START.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I REALLY WISH WE COULD DO IN GENERAL IS JUST HAVE MORE INTERGENERATIONAL CONNECTION.

A PERSON WHO I LOOKED AT IN THE BOOK IS AN ACTIVIST, MAGGIE COWN.

SHE WAS A HUGE ADVOCATE, AND LIVED WITH YOUNG PEOPLE AS AN OLDER WOMAN FOR DECADES.

I SPOKE WITH SOME OF THEM WHO REMEMBERED WHAT THAT EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE FOR THEM SO MANY YEARS, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE FACT.

AND THEY FOUND IT TO BE TOTALLY LIFE CHANGING.

SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING A LOT OF OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE THAT.

WE ACTUALLY ALREADY DO HAVE SMALLER VERSIONS OF THAT HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES IN VARIOUS CITIES.

BUT I THINK IN GENERAL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF WE COULD TALK ABOUT IT ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL FOR A SECOND, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THINKING OF YOURSELF AS SOMEONE WHO IDEALLY, AND I'M SPEAKING HERE AS A YOUNGISH PERSON, IS GOING TO GROW OLD.

LIKE I DON'T WANT TO PRECLUDE CONNECTIONS WITH OLDER PEOPLE CURRENTLY IN MY LIFE.

I WANT TO LEARN FROM THEM.

I WANT TO CONNECT WITH THEM.

I WANT TO BE SURPRISED AND CHANGED AND MOVED BY THEM IN THE SAME WAY I COULD DO FOR THEM.

AND THE THEN I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING, LIKE TRYING TO THINK ABOUT DISSOLVING WALLS BETWEEN OLDER PEOPLE AND YOUNGER IS SOMETHING TO REALLY THINK THROUGH, PARTICULARLY AS YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO HAVE REALLY BEEN STEEPED IN, I WOULD SAY, A LOT OF ANTI-OLD PERSON RHETORIC FOR MANY YEARS NOW.

>> THE BOOK IS CALLED "AGING OUT. "

AUTHOR, LUCY SCHILLER, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

> >> AND FINALLY, IF YOU COULD TASTE THE STARS, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE SWEET.

ASTRONOMERS DETECTED A TYPE OF CENTER NEAR THE CENTER OF THE MILKY WAY, NO, NOT THE CHOCOLATE BAR, BUT THE ONE IN SPACE.

DISCOVERED USING THESE TELESCOPES IN SPAIN.

THE SUGAR FLOATS IN CLOUDS OF DUST AND GAS.

IT'S THE SAME AS IN RASPBERRIES APPARENTLY.

IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME SAMPLES FROM THE ASTEROID FROM A WILD BACK CONTAINED A SPRINKLE OF OTHER TYPES OF SUGARS.

APPARENTLY IT'S A KEY INGREDIENT FOR INTERGALACTIC LIFE.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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[ MUSIC ] > >> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.