Episode 1

♪ Lights in the valley outshine the sun ♪ ♪ Lights in the valley outshine the sun ♪ ♪ Lights in the valley outshine the sun ♪ ♪ Way beyond the blue ♪ ♪ Way beyond the blue, one more time ♪ ♪ And it's way beyond the blue ♪ - For those of you who don't know much about me, I was born in North Carolina, in Greensboro and the surrounding rural areas, and I grew up in a pretty musical household.

I was told I was singing in my crib and haven't really stopped since.

Sang with my dad, with my sister, with my mom and never really thought much about it as a career until I was 17, and I decided I wanted to sing opera.

So I went off to the Oberlin Conservatory, and I studied classical music for five years and fell in love with it, absolutely adored it.

But then kind of at the end of my academic career, I kind of went, "I'm not sure if this is for me.

I'm not sure what I can offer the world of opera."

So I went back home to North Carolina, and I discovered the banjo.

I didn't just discover the banjo.

I discovered the whole string band tradition and discovered that it was actually an African American invention, that it was invented by people of the African diaspora in the Caribbean and then came up and became a staple of African American life in the United States.

And that blew me away, and I found my life's work with that realization.

And not only the banjo, but I also found a mentor in a man named Joe Thompson who was the last traditional Black fiddler of that style that was left in the area, and he mentored and taught and played with myself, Dom Flemons, and Justin Robinson, and we were the original Carolina Chocolate Drops, a band that formed around Joe's music and the idea of the Black string band and a whole hidden history that has been erased from the musical narrative.

(lively music) ♪ Cornbread, butterbeans and you across the table ♪ Eatin' beans and makin' love as long as I am able ♪ ♪ Hoein' corn and cotton too and when the day is over ♪ ♪ Ride the mule and cut the fool and love again all over ♪ ♪ Goodbye and don't ya cry, I'm going to Louisiana ♪ ♪ To buy a coon dog and a big fat hog and marry Susie Anna ♪ ♪ Sing-song, ding-dong, I'll take a trip to China ♪ ♪ Cornbread, butterbeans then back to North Carolina ♪ ♪ Cornbread and butterbeans and you across the table ♪ ♪ Eatin' them beans and makin' love as long as I am able ♪ ♪ Hoein' corn and cotton too, and when the day is over ♪ ♪ Ride the mule and cut the fool and love again all over ♪ (lively music) ♪ Wearin' shoes and drinking booze ♪ ♪ It goes against the Bible ♪ ♪ A necktie will make you die ♪ ♪ and cause you lots of trouble ♪ ♪ Streetcars and whiskey bars and kissing pretty women ♪ ♪ Women, yeah, that's the end of a terrible beginning ♪ ♪ Cornbread and butterbeans and you across the table ♪ ♪ Eatin' them beans and makin' love as long as I am able ♪ ♪ Hoein' corn and cotton too and when the day is over ♪ ♪ Ride the mule and cut the fool and love again all over ♪ (lively music) ♪ Cornbread and butterbeans and you across the table ♪ ♪ Eatin' them beans and makin' love as long as I am able ♪ ♪ Hoein' corn and cotton too and when the day is over ♪ ♪ Ride the mule and cut the fool and love again all over ♪ - Why do you think "Cornbread and Butterbeans" was so freaking popular?

- Whew, huh, I don't know.

Well, food is always a good topic.

(laughs) - This is true.

- There's a lot of those kind of silly sort of songs which were, I'm not sure what the point of them was other than to have fun.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Right?

I mean, it's also a classic combination, one I don't happen to like, but- - Yeah, that's right.

I like the butterbeans.

- I don't like them.

- We first met in 2005, which is almost 20 years ago.

- Yep.

- Good God almighty!

It's almost a whole generation, and in that, within that generation, we have become part of a lot of people's history.

- That's true.

- You know?

- Yep.

- And it's interesting to look back from this point.

- Earlier this year, I was at a festival, and there were some other younger people.

I was on, you know one of the people playing, and there were younger people there, and they were like, "I remember seeing you when I was a kid."

And I was like, "How much time has elapsed?"

(Rhiannon laughing) But yes, to your point, absolutely, like, these people saw us when they were in some of their formative years as, you know, a set of things that they, which had not been previously seen in that form, right?

They had not seen Black people playing this kind of music on this kind of a stage, on this kind of, you know, 'cause we were, at that time, we were a lot of places.

We were playing all over the place.

We had a lot of publicity, we had a lot of things.

So lots of people got to like behold what we were trying to do, and- - But it wasn't just what we were playing.

It was also that we were young.

- It's also that, too, yep, because we were in our 20s.

- You know, really young.

Yeah, yeah.

- Babies.

- How do you see it now, and where do you think it's going?

- I think it's going in a really interesting direction.

There are people who are, thanks in part to what we got to do is that people now see it as a part of something that is to be reclaimed, to be part of their understanding of themselves.

And so I've been approached by several people who are doing various aspects of it, some people who are coming at it very, very sort of traditionally.

Some people are like, "I just wanna play the music 'cause it speaks to me in this particular way."

But I do feel like the thing that we're trying to sort of get to happen is beginning to happen in a kind of a way, and I wouldn't say it's like got mass appeal, but it's not nothing, right?

It's definitely not nothing.

And I'm interested to see how that will happen in the next generation, right, when there is like, so we're, you know, and while we aren't elders in that sense in terms of age, we are in the music.

- Yeah.

- Right?

There's not any, there are very few other people who are, there are other people who are still playing, but we are in that level of being able to be accessible, and we have things to share with people about like our experience.

But then there's another generation coming up after that who are now seeing like us, right?

Then there are the people who are in the Jake Blount and the Kaia Kater age, they're people who are seeing now them.

- That's right.

- Right?

Who are seeing them, and so now it's the tradition is starting to like elongate and like starting to lengthen, right?

So there's Joe, who they don't know, but there's like, oh, you know, those other younger players are gonna be like, "We learned from these people."

Well, we not learned it from these people, but check these people out who we're a part of that lineage.

And so it starts to elongate, and so it can proliferate in a way that just time, just time makes possible.

- Yeah, it's nice to be here for it.

- It is!

It's nice to see it!

- Good to see happen.

- It's nice to see it.

(Rhiannon laughing) It's nice to like, you know, not to be like, "My dying wish was to..." right?

I'm glad I'm here, though, to experience it.

- Yeah, and you know, I feel like Joe would be pleased.

- Oh, I think he would be extremely pleased.

He wouldn't say it.

(laughs) - He wouldn't say that, no.

- But I think he'd be extremely pleased.

- Yeah.

- Yep.

- I also discovered other native North Carolina music, the gospel family singing tradition that I ended up digging into with my sister Lalenja because we've been singing together since I was able to phonate.

Well?

- Well.

- Here we are.

- Hi.

- 45 years after (laughs) we first met.

(both laughing) Yeah, it's amazing to get to sit here and talk about how much you are in the DNA of everything that I've done up until now.

No pressure, just sayin'.

(laughs) - Are you trying to make me like cry right off the bat?

- Pretty much, yeah, I'm just like, "How can I make my sister," no.

I remember learning, thinking, learning what harmony was so that I could sing it with you.

I remember that, I remember, you know, it came from singing rounds, you know, and which we used to do, and we used to sing with, you know, Dad and Mom and you know.

- Yeah, absolutely.

- And just that, it's like so fundamental to me.

It's still the first thing I do when I when I sing a song, if I sing with somebody, I automatically go to the harmony.

- Right.

- Like, I never take the lead.

- Yeah, you're incredibly skilled.

(laughs) - No, it's not, no, it's not about- - No, but- - It is not about skill.

It's about that's just what my initial response is, is how can I sing with this person, you know?

And it isn't, it's still, like, even though I've sung plenty of lead and sung plenty of solos, it's still the most comfortable and happiest place for me to be vocally.

So but it's not just that, though, and that's the musical part, but it's also, you know, you and Mom talking about the world.

- Yes.

(laughs) - Feminism, racism, all the -isms, and I remember I used to be sitting there, like, "Please stop."

(both laughing) Do you remember those conversations, like?

- Of course I remember those conversations.

- You know, your thesis.

- Yeah, it was the thesis.

- Was it Black, "“Images of Black People in the Media"”?

- Black women.

- Black women in the media.

- Black women in the media, yeah.

- I'm like, that was my background constantly.

- Right, right.

- All going in evidently.

- Right, clearly did.

Yeah, I mean even, I mean, I don't think we (laughs), did we really have much of a choice?

'Cause Deborah Jamieson from (laughs), from the kickoff, but I'm thankful for it.

- Mm-hmm, I'm just kind of- - Yeah, yeah, no.

- I'm just thinking about, you know, the things that when I use the art that I do, the pieces that I go, "Oh, yeah, that's from being Lalenjas sister," you know?

"Oh, that's from singing with Lalenja, or that's from being exposed to her poetry or talking about the world or listening to her a capella group."

I mean, you were like massively, you know, influential on me, you know?

- Right.

- You went to Princeton, "I wanna go to Princeton."

- Right, right.

- Yeah, and I want...that didn't happen for me, but I wanted to go there, you know what I mean?

Like, I wanted to do all the things that you did.

- But you know, what's really beautiful to me, I guess kind of at this point in my life now, is for me to be able to recognize and acknowledge those places now where I am so influenced by you and what you're doing.

- Hah.

-And it goes beyond just, "Oh, I'm proud of my sister," right?

If I didn't know you from Jack, I would be really into, you know, kind of your work and the way that you approach things.

Every time we sing together, the energy that I feel and the response that folks give, I don't know, there's something...

I mean, I think each one of us are doing like, you know, these, you know, things kind of in our own paths.

But there's something about that connection that just feels super special to me and that I think people respond, you know, really respond to that.

♪ One more day ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ One more day ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ He has kept me ♪ ♪ From all evil ♪ ♪ He's kept my mind ♪ ♪ Stayed on Jesus ♪ ♪ One more day ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ I'm so glad ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ I'm so glad ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ He has kept me ♪ ♪ From all evil ♪ ♪ He's kept my mind ♪ ♪ Stayed on Jesus ♪ ♪ One more day ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ One more day ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ One more day ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ ♪ He has kept me ♪ ♪ From all evil ♪ ♪ He's kept my mind ♪ ♪ He's kept my mind ♪ ♪ He's kept my mind ♪ ♪ He's kept my mind ♪ ♪ Stayed on ♪ ♪ Stayed on ♪ ♪ Stayed on ♪ ♪ Stayed on ♪ ♪ Stayed on ♪ ♪ Stayed on Jesus ♪ ♪ One more day ♪ ♪ The Lord has kept me ♪ - It's funny when I hear my kids sing together.

I hear that timbre, just.

Sibling voices are genetically the closest they can be.

Like, I have made you think that you called your own answering service because our voices can be so similar.

That was like, I literally, that is like, in my, it's like, you know, "“Carolina Chocolate Drops win Mount Airy Fiddlers Convention"”, and number two is like "“Make Lalenja think that she was calling..."” I mean, 'cause you used to do jokes on me.

Like when I thought that you had some frozen animal in the freezer.

You were always playing jokes on me, so I got you back one time.

- You did, it was good, it was good.

- I was proud of myself.

- I thought it was me, (laughing) I thought it was me.

- [Rhiannon] I also discovered North Carolina's incredible homegrown singer-songwriter tradition when I made very good friends with Laurelyn Dossett, who's an incredible songwriter and very much tied to the landscape of North Carolina.

♪ Hush now, don't you wake up ♪ ♪ We'll be leaving at first light ♪ ♪ Mama's buying you a mockingbird ♪ ♪ To lull you through the night ♪ ♪ We'll cross the Dan by morning ♪ ♪ Here's a blanket for you to share ♪ ♪ They're building down in Georgia ♪ ♪ Daddy hears we'll find work there ♪ ♪ And the mockingbird can't sing ♪ ♪ Like the crying of a dove ♪ ♪ And I can't tell my daughters ♪ ♪ All the things that I am scared of ♪ ♪ But I'm not afraid of that bright glory up above ♪ ♪ Dying's just another way to leave the ones you love ♪ ♪ The ones you love ♪ (peaceful viola music) ♪ No work for the working man ♪ ♪ Just one more empty mill ♪ ♪ Hard times in Rockingham ♪ ♪ Hard times harder still ♪ ♪ The crows are in the kitchen ♪ ♪ The wolves at the door ♪ ♪ Our father's land of Eden ♪ ♪ Is paradise no more ♪ ♪ And the mockingbird can't sing ♪ ♪ Like the crying of a dove ♪ ♪ And I can't tell my daughters ♪ ♪ All the things that I'm scared of ♪ ♪ But I am not afraid of that bright glory up above ♪ ♪ Dying's just another way to leave the ones you love ♪ ♪ The ones you love ♪ (peaceful viola music) ♪ My sister stayed in Eden ♪ ♪ Her husband's got some land ♪ ♪ The agent for the county ♪ ♪ Thinks that they can make a stand ♪ ♪ It's a hard life of working ♪ ♪ With nothing much to show ♪ ♪ It's a long life of leaving with nowhere to go ♪ ♪ And the mockingbird can't sing ♪ ♪ Like the crying of a dove ♪ ♪ And I can't tell my daughters ♪ ♪ All the things that I'm scared of ♪ ♪ But I am not afraid of that bright glory up above ♪ ♪ Dying's just another way ♪ ♪ To leave the ones you love ♪ ♪ The ones you love ♪ (peaceful viola music) - I think about those years in Greensboro, and like when I came home from college and was trying to kind of figure myself out like musically, and the relationships that I started to make.

You know, I had my relationship with my sister, and then I had the relationship that was starting with the Chocolate Drops, and like you're one of those really significant pillars of the life that I was putting together for myself.

You know, and you were just really supportive, and you were always just always there.

We had, I remember those so many conversations, you know, in your living room.

you know, in that house.

And you know, I don't know, it's just, I feel really grateful to have had these relationships, you know, in that part of my life, because I feel like that's, it's like I was saying to my sister, that's what I'm taking with me, you know?

'Cause once you start going out and living like out there, like on stage, you know, that just happened to be where my trajectory took me was to doing music full-time.

But like in that stage where I was still figuring out who I was as an artist, like, I feel like that's actually the most important time.

Once you're out there and doing it, things are kind of fixed, and you can- - I know what you mean.

- You can shift a little bit, but like the time that we've really had the most kind of interaction, yeah, when we had the projects and "The Gathering," which is where I met Jason.

- Exactly.

- Who's been my bass player ever since then, I stole him away, I'm sorry.

(laughs) - You stole him away, it's okay, I'm okay with that.

One thing I was thinking as you were talking, though, is that we both have an affinity for and I think we probably grew together with, is the idea of how music is a storytelling tool and a change-making tool.

And you know, the things that I was writing and that we worked on together were part of a theatrical situation, but it was still, you know, vernacular music or folk music on the stage.

- When we were working together, I wasn't really a songwriter.

- Oh, that's right!

- You know, I was an interpreter.

- I remember that.

(laughs) - Right, I didn't really become a songwriter until like the Chocolate Drops was already like well into doing their thing, and you know, so I do think it's like just like watching what my sister did with her poetry, you know, watching you use folk idioms to tell a story that's beyond what's in the ballad, you know what I mean, and having it act kind of in a double way, you know, a lot of times.

And the theatrical pieces that you worked on, you know, those were pieces that used that folk idiom, and you were able to make a song that was poetic and moving the story but also was very rooted in, you know, the traditions that it came from.

And I know that that was something that I carry with me as, 'cause that's exactly what I do with with my songs.

This so funny when you think about the difference, where our lives have gone since that moment, you know, of, you know, you were kind of helping me out, and I was just in a real "I don't know what's happening" part of my life, you know, and- - Yeah, well.

- And here we are.

- And here we are.

- And we still dont know whats happening!

don't know what's happening.

- We still don't know -But you're in this incredible space where you're able to host people and host events, and... - It's pretty special.

It's been really fun to have you and the others here today, Justin and Lalenja.

(lively fiddle and banjo music) - Yeah, that was it.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- That was it.

- That sounded so nice!

- That was like, oh!

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