Welcome to Perspectives both online and on air it's from WFSU Public Media and i'm Tom Flanagan Thank you so much for joining us This is our eighth and final program in our series of Political Perspectives in the lead up to the august 18th primary election in leon county and this program was recorded on tuesday august 4th for playback, both on WFSU FM and our WFSU Public Media facebook page on thursday august the 6th today We'll talk with the contenders for circuit judge group 16 in the second judicial circuit Which covers leon gadsden what color jefferson liberty and franklin counties We'll meet the candidates in just a sec and each will have a few moments to talk about Their background and the unique qualities that they bring to the position then we'll get into things such as judicial philosophy and temperament certainly critical Considerations for those who sit on the bench and the reason we're doing all this is just to give you the voters sufficient information So you can make an informed And intelligent decision as to which candidate is likely to do the better job in office and though we don't get into strict time limits We do ask our guests to make pithy statements and arguments so we can cover more ground in the course of the conversation So let's meet our candidates for group 16 circuit judge In florida's second judicial circuit a pre-show random drawing gave the opening statement nod to the incumbent In the race who is Angela Dempsey and go ahead, uh judge Dempsey It is all yours for some introductory comments and tell us a bit about yourself Sure.

Thank you so much Tom and thank you WFSU for putting this on.

I'm a longtime member of WFSU, it's a great station and i'm happy to be here today So i've been your circuit judge for over 14 years.

It'll be 15 years in november.

I was appointed in 2005 elected in 2008 And then re-elected without opposition in 2014 I've served in all divisions of the circuit court resolved thousands of cases fairly and efficiently I presided over hundreds of trials including 12 murder trials Before becoming a judge I was a lawyer of course and I did litigation for about 12 years I graduated from university of florida college of law with honors and I have two daughters in their early 20s One who graduated from florida last year and one who's going into her senior year at georgia in athens I think I have the maturity the experience and the qualifications To be re-elected and I hope you all will vote for me on august 18th or before Thank you very much.

Now, let's hear from the challenger in the race for some introductory comments.

Kevin Alvarez.

Go ahead sir.

Thank you So much Tom and thank you to WFSU for putting this on i've grown up on WFSU In fact, I have a letter from mr.

Rogers from way back in the day when I was about four years old Uh, I love watching WFSU.

And um, thank you so much for having me.

So I grew up in ocala florida originally Moved up here for law school and for undergrad.

Um, I got a double major in criminology and political science At fsu and then went to law school here I was able to get both degrees in a little over four years.

Um I went right into private practice as soon as I got out of law school where I practiced, um high volume litigation mostly criminal defense for the first five years and then I opened up my own firm and in my own practice now, I do a mix of Civil some family and still a little bit of criminal defense Um, I represent a couple of construction companies as general counsel where I provide them with advice and suggestions and legal compliance Um advice on employment issues and frankly now cares act Interpretation more than anything else since that's passed through in dealing with these pandemic issues With my litigation experience i've handled hundreds of cases I've had over 50 jury trials as the first chair lawyer Which is a lot of trials for for any lawyer in such a period of time And I think that makes me uniquely situated to be able to handle the role of a circuit judge.

I practice in front of every judge in this circuit almost And almost every judge in the surrounding circuits as well so I can take bits and pieces from different styles And I know what works and what doesn't work and I think i'd be an excellent circuit judge.

I have the temperament to do it And I have the experience to do it Thank you, sir.

Let's get into some of the nuts and bolts of the actual uh promulgation of the the judge's function Particularly within this circuit because we are a little bit different from the other circuits That are scattered throughout the state of florida more on that to come but first, mr Alvarez while we're talking to you certainly for any judicial decision Considerations of law should carry the most weight everyone I think agrees on that but a judge's decisions also impact people Should the potential impact of a ruling that you make on the people who are involved in a case?

be factored in any way shape form or fashion into the ruling you make It depends on whether the law provides to allow that consideration to be made so sometimes the law can be And I hate to say cold and heartless But it can be cold and heartless where it does not allow the effect that it has on the individual to be considered in the decision-making um, and in that case, um I believe the judge's hands unfortunately are tied in that situation That we have to follow the law whether we agree with it or whether we don't agree with it um there are some decisions for example in in criminal cases after somebody has uh been convicted of a crime or has entered a plea to the judge saying that they're guilty of the offense the sentencing determination can Sometimes take into account um the the factors of the holistic idea of who this person is and what a fact A a certain sentence might have on them or on their family or or and on society as a whole so in that Situation it is permitted and you're allowed to look at the individual circumstances and the effect that the ruling would have on the individual Okay Angela Dempsey same um, same question for you.

Uh Given that there may be wiggle room in some considerations of law when it comes to personal Consideration.

What kind of balance do you strike on that or or do you sure, you do look just like some type of balance you need to focus on the law and the facts of the case and the Evidence that is presented primarily But then um, it'll also depend to a large extent on what the other side is requesting Um, so sometimes the other side of the litigation won't object Um to maybe delaying a sentencing or delaying a hearing.

Um But if they do object then you'll just have to weigh The factors.

Um And inevitably you are going to be ruling against someone uh in every case so, uh You do need A law but you do need to to some extent consider how that's gonna affect people in the long run.

Um, Because we do have a large impact on people's lives our work does Let's Do something uh here as far as the administrational side of the ledger is concerned then we'll circle back to some other Philosophical and more esoteric kinds of fun things that judges get to play with.

Um, Angela Dempsey you folks in the Circuit here and across florida are heading into some rather perilous times certainly interesting times in the parlance of the ancient chinese curse We know what has happened with dockets given the covid 19 impact Likely also as the folks across the street in the legislature start dealing with are what are likely to be greatly diminished budgets on a number of angles Including the judiciary which is funded by the legislature How do you see that playing out and if you remain a a circuit judge?

How does that impact what you do on a day-to-day basis knowing that you're not Possibly going to have the resources that you're you have been accustomed to Right.

Um, so the florida bar president has described the last four or five months as a crash course in um Crisis management and so we've had to uh meet this challenge for covid Um so far nothing really has happened to our budgets Um, but it has been a challenge to do remote Hearings particularly in criminal i'm assigned to civil right now.

We haven't had quite as many challenges We can't do jury trials obviously and we can't do much on foreclosures But besides that we have been able to accomplish a fair amount um I understand that we're going to have less senior judge days, which is kind of a big deal because um, they Help us fill in like for example right now We have two open seats one county and one circuit court seat and we're using senior judge days to help out With those vacancies, so I think we're going to be losing some senior judge time we are short three staff attorneys, which is our Law, what people think of as law clerks at an appellate court So that is a challenge.

Um, they help us with a lot of post judgment and post conviction work Um, and also we've been allowing them to work remotely because we're trying to have as few as people in the courthouse as possible um, so that's been a challenge and then hopefully We have those freezes.

Um, but hopefully we won't get hit too much worse if they do a special session later this year Okay.

Thank you very much.

Uh Kevin Alvarez for you This would be a little bit more hypothetical But let's just say the voters give you the nod you get embenched if you will and and suddenly chief judge Jonathan Sjostrom comes Into your chambers and and says judge Alvarez We we know you'd bring a fresh approach and a new vision to this whole thing Since you're brand new to the job and I need you to start slashing budget budgets here for the second circuit What what do you do?

Where do you start hacking?

So that's an excellent question and it becomes you know, as you know, a very complicated balancing tests And in some part I hate to say it, but this is kind of how our system of government is Set up that resources are limited in each branch of government and if the legislature Wants cases to be dissolved to be resolved Uh quickly and efficiently they're going to have to fund the resources to have them resolved quickly and efficiently if they're not going to fund the court system then As as judge Sjostrom would say All you can do is all you can do to a certain extent Now that being said, I think there are a lot of changes that we can make to try to Streamline and make it more efficient, especially in the in the criminal court system, you know I have a lot of faith in the lawyers that are involved Especially in the criminal court system to get together and work out cases.

There's only a certain number of prosecutors There's only a certain number of public defenders and private attorneys that are going to be able to actually try those cases We've seen that the district court of appeal and and our circuit court judges tend to seem to get along Very well from an outsider perspective That whenever there is a rush on cases which happens sometimes and there's this need for trials to be conducted um, especially uh When somebody files what's called demands for speedy trial?

That a judge will come down from the district court of appeal and sit as a circuit court judge in that capacity To help take the load off.

The other circuit court judges assigned to the criminal division So I think the resources of the judiciary so long as everybody's willing to work hard and make some accommodations We'll be able to handle that influx and flow Um, so that's that's probably what I would tell them The the other thing is that we have to make sure that we make use of this of of these virtual proceedings Um, a lot of criminal court stuff is case management case management is nothing more than scheduling for lawyers There's no reason that shouldn't be able to take place by phone or by email Some questions here for interview based on uh, some qualification Considerations here we could for you.

Mr.

Alvarez, the very word judge implies good judgment, of course and You have acknowledged your judgment in regards some social media posts you made years ago was lacking How do you convince voters now that those statements don't reflect the person that you are now and they should give you the nod Well, I would tell you that the the Kevin in his early 20s certainly wouldn't have been qualified to be a circuit court judge That's for sure.

In fact, I would suggest most people in their early 20s would not be qualified to be a circuit court judge I'm in my 30s now i'm married.

I've been running my own practice.

I have I have employees.

I am certainly not the young arrogant kid that I was When I was in undergrad when I was in law school and even in my first year of practice um, you know, I apologized for everything that I did back during that time period um and that's why i'd asked the voters to give me a chance to my experience has been people are very forgiving and i've just been frankly Overwhelmed by the number of members of the community that have called me and said hey push through it's okay We all did stupid stuff when we were when we were younger in our 20s and so that's what I that's what i'd ask voters is is To take take the time review my record and ask people that know me.

I think that's the most important way because as a politician You know words don't matter nearly as much as as actions And if you ask lawyers that know me people that know me citizens that know me over the past Eight nine years.

They're gonna say Kevin, definitely has a temperament and the experience to be a judge okay, uh, Angela Dempsey Just in as a rejoinder here your Campaign has has made kind of an issue out of uh what Mr.

Alvarez said those years ago do you think that is still relevant to who he is today or is this uh do you think the nader of the of the whole decision between You two as candidates for the bench I do think it's relevant for the voters and it'll be up to them to decide but I know uh some Female lawyers discovered the post and they were very upset by it And others in the community have been very upset by it by those posts And I just think it it does speak to My opponent's maturity and his ability to be fair to the groups, um, meaning women and minorities that uh, he said derogatory and negative things about All right while we're with you Uh Ms.

Dempsey here.

Every person of course has opinions if it's somewhere on the on the political spectrum How would you characterize your opinions and what role if any have they played in the judicial?

Uh decision-making process that you engage in um my if you mean political opinions they've played no role in my decision-making process I've only focused on the law and the evidence presented in a case um And so That's why these races are nonpartisan.

That's why we're not allowed to say what party we belong to and it's important that a judge be able to be objective and be able to have uh independence to make Decisions.

Um And then not to be affected by the political winds after that Little history of uh, Ms.

Dempsey.

What do you personally consider to be the most significant?

Judicial decision from any court, uh made during your lifetime and why?

Um, it's hard to pick just one Uh one, um major one that's affected criminal law in the past Five or so years is a case called Graham and it's all often referred to with another case called Miller people Just call it Graham Miller and that uh, those two cases decided that Juveniles could not be sentenced to life, um without the possibility of release at some point um, and so now that there's no real parole system in florida Um at least for crimes committed more recently It's sort of like a parole system for juvenile offenders And that's changed the landscape a lot for juvenile offenders.

Who the focus?

is often more on rehabilitation than punishment for that type of an offender Very fine.

Mr.

Alvarez any uh Decisions that spring to your mind most immediately that boy that was pivotal.

That was landmark I that I think that meant a lot at least to you So it might get a little academic here and it's it's kind of confined to the criminal area But there's a case called cable versus State and and what it dealt with is the application of the exclusionary rule to violations of what's called the knock and announce statute see it on tv when police bang on a door and say You know police we have a warrant then they wait before they breach the door and make entry There was a U.S.

Supreme court case called Hudson that said that if the police violate that the exclusionary rule by Throwing out any evidence.

That's found does not apply And and florida has a constitutional provision that says we interpret the florida constitution search and seizure Protections in conformity with the united states supreme court and their decisions and precedent Cable is an interesting case because it is a divergence From that constitutional principle and what it says is florida has under a case called benfield historically, um treated the knock and announced Situation differently and so it's it's a little bit of an interesting enigma in the law that I found Pretty interesting and it had a pretty wide sweeping effect during the time period after hudson came out before cable came out appreciate that You're watching a special Political Perspectives from WFSU Public Media This is group 16.

The two folks who are in contention for the Second judicial circuit group 16 a judgeship the incumbent Angela Dempsey the challenger Kevin Alvarez early voting in case you noticed actually got underway this week in leon county It continues through the 16th early voting locations posted on the supervisor of elections Website primary election day is august 18th.

But from what we understand There has been a virtual tsunami of um By mail ballots that have been flooding into Mark Earley's office here.

We'll see how how everything comes out let's go back to some questions here about again the Uniqueness of the second judicial circuit because everyone handles criminal and civil cases That's uniform across the entire state of florida, but right here across the street from the capitol Our courthouse has some additional responsibilities as a judge in this circuit You may often be called upon to decide the constitutionality of legislation passed by state lawmakers And almost without exception the decision you make is likely to be appealed and may be overturned Now given precedent and the composition of the appellate court A savvy judge usually has kind of some suspicions as to whether or not their ruling might be reversed Should that knowledge have any impact on how you roll?

Kevin Alvarez Let's start with you on that one So i'll give you a little bit of uh of not a direct response But but best response I can give you the fear of being Reversed should not affect the decision The fear of not following the law Should affect your decision And so if you're following the law diligently if you're going through the academic steps you need to to reach the ruling And and you know, you are correct, then that's what you do um if if the appellate court, um decides later that you were incorrect well, I'm, sorry occasionally that that happens not very often but occasionally it does but what I think is critically important is that judges have the sense that some of these cases we're going to be dealing with Especially if i'm elected are going to be very very serious and and have broad sweeping implications throughout the entire state of florida And we need to make sure that on especially those cases that have a lot of public attention to them That we take the time to be super diligent About making sure a good record is created making sure that we ask the right questions and making sure That we take the time to inform the citizenry that might be watching the steps that that we're taking, you know A lot of people may be watching in In a judicial hearing that have no experience with the law and don't know the nuts and bolts I think it's really important when that happens for a judge to take the time to explain Exactly how they're getting to the decision that they're reaching so that it has credibility with those that are watching Okay Same thing if you know for sure You know the folks at the at the first district court of appeal and you have seen the rulings they have made on similar kinds of Uh items in the past and You know, you're going down.

I mean, does that have any influence at all on how you rule?

Um, yes When you're in a civil division here in tallahassee, which I have been twice I'm, not on my second rotation in there you get a lot of constitutional questions you get election challenges And just purely focusing on who's likely to hear the appeal Um, I think is less important than focusing on the decisions that have come out of that court and you kind of alluded to that Tom, I mean you certainly want to look at All decisions and especially more recent decisions particularly when the election law area cases change over time so you want to look at um More recent decisions out of the first dca and how they've been treating those Which of course are binding on us?

As circuit judges and make your decision accordingly okay, uh while we're in in your neck of the woods here without exception every candidate for a judicial post always says I will be Fair.

I will be impartial do you What do those words actually mean give them some some meat and potatoes if you would please Okay, um they mean, um Generally not worrying too much about how people are going to react uh, To the decision and I by that I don't necessarily mean the parties but the public um or your critics or um Anything like that because we have to focus on the law and not be swayed by public opinion um So that's definitely part of it The fairness also includes giving people a fake opportunity to be heard And giving them due process that the law requires and that includes everything from procedural due process making sure people Have adequate notice of hearings and adequate time to prepare As well as substantive due process um which is uh More based on the law and based more on on substance and the actual arguments that people are making before you um And so that's what those words mean to me Okay, and any different connotation for you Kevin Alvarez when it comes to those terms?

I think to have a little bit more more meat on the bones I mean, we have the dictionary definition of fair and impartial we all know generally what that is um in running a courtroom that is fair and impartial the most important thing is cultivating an environment where people feel like that they're going to get a fair shake that they're going to have a Judge, that's going to listen to what they have to say what evidence they have to present who's going to be unbiased and who's not Just going to be unbiased but is going to be on guard for any implicit bias that may creep in at all And to make sure that then the ruling that they issue is well explained so that generally people watching of reasonable mindset and and reasonable education on the issue can say I see how they got there.

Even if they don't agree with the judge's decision so long as I can say You know, I reasonably see how he got there.

That was a fair shake That was a fair hearing.

I think that's what being a fair and impartial judge is is what it's all about A new a new aspect of the judiciary.

Well, maybe not so new because i'm thinking back Oh my gosh, i'm going back too many years here.

There was a guy by the name of Charlie Miner Who used to sit in the second judicial circuit as a judge, um a a great jurist also a fantastic playwright and you would go into his chambers maybe to talk about some um a point of procedure on a big case that was coming up and you as a journalist was trying to get Some idea of the lay of the land on this because we're we're not experts when it comes to this thing and judge Miner would very Carefully and methodically outline how these sorts of cases would proceed and then he'd reach down into his desk drawer And pull out his uh latest screed for a play that he was writing He want you to give your opinion of that too.

It was always a lot of fun to visit him but we also had a um A fellow who has been uh recently moved up, uh from the uh, the county judge level fellow by the name of Layne Smith Who was kind of in this boat too when it came to community outreach and explaining what was going on?

back Behind the robes if you will of our judiciary because let's face it.

Not only journalists But the average person may not be that up on how our court system operates so as as a jurist, uh, Angela Dempsey What are your thoughts about maybe getting out more into the hustings?

I know we have to do it virtually nowadays, but To let people know just how the courts operate And how they kind of fit into the whole judicial proceeding As citizens both on the civil and the and the criminal side of the ledger Yeah community outreach is very important and i've done that with the justice teaching program I've done that by speaking at my rotary um in other ways uh, i've also done a lot of other community service with second harvest and leadership tallahassee but just as far as explaining the legal system to people um When you mention Charlie Minor, uh I don't know.

I think there's Two that can come with that if you're trying to encourage someone to read your screenplay Or buy your book or what have you?

There's a lot of pitfalls That can be had with ethical violations so you want to avoid those also So I just think you need a controlled setting maybe more than than in your chambers maybe in a more formal setting Good point, uh, Kevin Alvarez your thoughts on that the outreach and the educational dimension so Great question.

I was thinking about it a couple of days ago when I was reading Layne Smith's column in the paper On probable cause and I just thought that was an excellent and excellent idea because I think it's really important You know with knowledge comes power and with the number of years that i've been handling litigation um one one of the common misconceptions That folks have is that a police officer when they pull you over on a traffic Stop has to have a reason to ask you to get out of the car They don't and that's been settled off for years and years.

Um But a lot of folks just don't know that So then what happens is when a police officer asks them to step out of the car on a traffic stop They feel like their rights are being violated They feel like they're getting slighted just on that interaction just because they don't know and when they're in my office and I say look They're actually allowed to let you do that go Oh And that changes the whole perspective on that entire traffic stop And and I think that's why it's so important for judges to be out there in the community You know We can't give give legal advice to people direct legal advice but explaining how the court system is operating explaining what they can expect when they when they enter court I think is Is critically important because that's how the system gains integrity That's how people have trust in the decisions that the judges make when they can say.

Hey, I know Kevin, he's a good guy.

And if he ruled against you it's because you were wrong not because of any other reason personal ways of uh handling different cases, of course are as individualistic as Kind of the way that we uh, we wear our hair or uh, you know choice of uh colors in the clothes that we wear But there are judges who insist that they make better decisions if they come I think the term is fresh to the case And don't spend a whole bunch of time pouring over, uh, things like depositions and other documents before coming into the courtroom On the other end of the spectrum.

However, you have some judges who really get into the minutia every single Aspect of the case is well known to them almost memorized Before the trial even gets underway on that continuum If we could mr.

Alvarez, what's what's your personal approach to preparation before a case So, I believe you have to be ultrar prepared Because a lot of times the arguments are about the nuance and if you're not prepared on the case itself You may miss the nuance And I can't tell you how frustrating that was for me as a lawyer when i'm coming in arguing the nuance of something And and i'm not able to to get the judge to focus on the nuance because they're caught on on an overarching issue that If they've gone through the transcripts or gone through the evidence presented beforehand they might have gotten and so I am a big believer that the judge should be ultra prepared The judge should should research in advance judge shouldn't conduct any independent investigation.

I think it is critically important for the judge You know to have this open honest conversation with the lawyers if i've done some legal research if i'm elected on an issue I need to come in and bring those cases for the lawyers to say.

Hey, I read these cases Beforehand that might be of issue Can you all discuss them as opposed to just keeping that knowledge to myself and not giving them a fair opportunity to rebut them?

Where are you on the perspective, uh, Angela Dempsey when it comes to preparation Sure.

Thank you You certainly have to prepare for every hearing in every case and I spend hours and hours every week doing that But you have to keep in mind we have hundreds of cases We have between 800 and a thousand cases at any one time um so that does temper to extend Our ability to prepare and then also there's times when lawyers don't get us the materials till a day or two before And we certainly do our best to get ready.

Um, but sometimes particularly honestly, you'll get a You know five or six inch binder of case law Um the day before and it's pretty much impossible to read all that before the hearing But preparation is very important There are also uh, some changes that are likely to be seen in our courts going forward because of sociological changes and we have seen what's been going on around the country as far as whether it's black lives matter or Uh some blow back to other things that are going on politically We have already determined from our conversation today that you try to be as apolitical as you possibly can Sitting on the bench, but those things still will make an impact On the courts and the law that you are called upon to Interpret in the second judicial circuit.

So um, Angela Dempsey.

What are what are your thoughts on that moving forward?

The judge has no course control over those sorts of things.

But how do you see that?

Impacting our courtrooms of the future if you will Sure.

Um, so we don't have any control over what cases come before us So we pretty much just wait and see what cases are assigned to us There has been um a body of study that we've had some courses on With the conference of circuit judges, who which is the 600 circuit judges in the state?

And i'm in charge of putting on criminal courses for that group It's called being the criminal track leader.

And I was selected by my peers to do that But some of the courses we focused on lately are do have to do with bias and implicit bias And we've had experts come and speak with us and it's been very helpful Okay.

Kevin Alvarez your thoughts on that too as we head into kind of an uncertain future on some of these issues um I think that goes to the to the key of how I want to operate the courtroom Is there is a lot of people generally that are watching criminal proceedings?

um Normally people with other cases that are that are set up for their family and friends And it is so important for a judge to take the time to explain their ruling I get the judges are busy.

I Get that there's a lot of cases but there is nothing more important than explaining the decision that you've reached so those that are watching will say I get it I get how you got there so that there's not this temptation to to say This judge made this ruling because they are racist This judge made this ruling because they are sexist this judge made this ruling because they're unfair When really it was based on an entirely permissible factor, like somebody's extensive criminal history And so it's really critical for the judge to take the time to explain how they got to where they're going As as to the legislature, you know The biggest thing that judges have to I think be careful about is paying attention to when laws change Because while it's our job to follow the laws as they change, I think sometimes it's it's easy for judges Especially that have been there maybe for a while to get into a rut where their instinct Is well this is what the law is and then they don't take the time to diligently look at the change in case law That's happened over the past couple of months because the law was settled in an area for years and years and then changed so I think judges have to be really careful to listen to the lawyers when the lawyer stands up and says Hey, judge, there's this new case out there that says something different than what what you originally thought but they take the time to read it and All the lawyers.

Yeah, okay explain this to me what happened what changed and then to go do the research if they're still unsure second judicial circuit, uh judge group 16 the contenders Angela Dempsey the incumbent Kevin Alvarez the challenger on our Political Perspectives and if you miss all or part of a Perspectives program it is available online as is the entire universe nowadays not only at our WFSU.org website but also our WFSU Public Media facebook page we try to have the latest program up on both places just as Quickly as we can after it actually appears for the very first time in the case of facebook It's actually simultaneous with that how handy is that?

back to the questions and Of course if you're a guitarist you have a hero guitarist Whether it's Mike Bloomfield or Eric Clapton or someone like that if you are a jurist You probably have a hero judge and Angela Dempsey.

Who's your your favorite judge or one that you say boy?

This was the the ultimate this is the pinnacle Of judicial conduct and and a great mind Sure, um One, uh judge, I really admire is Sandra Day O'Connor because she was the first female appointed to the U.S.

Supreme Court And I think she did a good job, uh with the reasoning in her opinions at that court Who's your hero judge?

Kevin Alvarez?

You know A lot less known but as a circuit judge, it's Greg Parker over in the third circuit.

He's just fantastic I did a trial with him.

We had an issue that came up that had some confusion Um me my client the the prosecutor at the time him all went back into chambers opened up our laptops jumped on the legal research database He had snacks and water was polite and kind to my client throughout the entire trial was polite and kind to everybody in the courtroom I just went And my client said, you know if the jury comes back guilty At least that judge was really fair and and I thought that was just Slam dunk, that's what we need we that's how we restore integrity to the to the criminal justice system is when folks that are that lose can say That judge was great.

It wasn't because of the judge that I lost It was because of the facts it was because the jury disagreed with me, but it wasn't the judge it wasn't the system but you point out something that can be a problem for some uh jurists and that is in their attempt to be scrupulously fair and you know, you can't be friends with the Prosecution or the defense attorney or anything else?

You have to maintain that distance, but still we all know of some judges who kind of let things slip Through their fingers and the courtroom gets out of control.

How do you keep that from happening if you're sitting on the bench?

Kevin?

well Candidly, and I hate to be so crass about it, but there's a bailiff in criminal court with a gun There is no question in a well-run courtroom that that that courtroom can be controlled And so you have to read through the scenario that you're being presented with How is everybody acting is this is this um in a criminal case is the defendant somebody That might lose control and you pay attention to that sort of stuff and I have a lot of experience doing doing criminal cases I think i'm going to have a pretty good read on when somebody is is is going to lose control And and so then you're careful then that's something you probably don't bring back into chambers or you talk to your bailiff in your courtroom security beforehand about how the best way to handle that situation is but i've In the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases i've tried it is a very very small minority of folks that that don't act appropriately in court the majority i'd say at least Well in the high ninety percent of people that i've represented have always behaved well in court with no issues Okay, Angela Dempsey your thoughts on that on that too Sure, so there's a lot of moving parts when you're in the courtroom from the lawyers clients witnesses bailiffs clerks You have to be aware of that and unexpected things happen and you have to be ready to address them when those happen and then of course, you have jurors which lays another Factor on it.

Um, and I know tom you were on a panel of mine, uh one time and Still get up and you have to you know, make sure you stop jurors or lawyers from bringing Inappropriate stuff up or you're to have to start the jury selection over again.

So it's something that Does really need to be on their toes and be ready for at all times?

And full disclosure.

Kevin just to let you know, I I was tossed out of the jury poll probably I think three times over the uh, the course of my uh life they For whatever reason and neither the defense nor the prosecution really likes to have journalists on a jury panel I don't know why that is i'd really like to serve on a jury Well, you know folks as much as as we're wrapping up here we could talk to you for the rest of the day you've all been fascinating here, but as Much as any of us may wish to deny it back to that Thing about politics playing a part in deciding who who gets to be a judge if not the actual functioning in the courtroom itself Because politicians on all sides of the political spectrum have been talking increasingly about the need to have more judges on the bench who reflect a political Bent of a certain kind and it now seems the electorate has really picked up on this as well So, um, we talk about having judges.

That should be you know Good conservatives or liberals or libertarians or something in between and that if all the judges are the way we want them to be politically Then life will be a wonderful thing And that this is actually a desired outcome to have a highly partisan Jurist, and I I want to revisit if we we could with you starting um with angela dempsey Just your thought on that because many people now buy into this.

We need to have all the judges who fit our political categories across the board and Again, what do you do?

Right.

Um I think that's wrong.

I mean, I think you want to have a balanced group.

Um, and again, it's non-partisan I think some of the best judges Maybe a good example is terry lewis.

I don't think anybody knows what party he is And that's how you want it to be.

So when you go in there, it's fair.

Um, and you don't have a preconceived notion Oh, this judge is a republican or this judge is a democrat.

So they're gonna decide one way or the other um And people try to get you to tell them uh, what party they are when you're running.

Um, and you you just can't Yeah, and Kevin Alvarez.

How do you deflect that too?

Because of course everyone has opinions and all but now it seems to be that is what we want We want all of our judges to think and act a certain way I would be scared if we had hyper partisanship on the circuit court Um, I truly believe judges have to follow the law and the law is generally fairly Fairly in black and white.

I mean it is what it says that it is And if you're looking for a judge that has a lien one way or the other That means somebody might lose even though they followed the law Because the judge doesn't personally agree with the decision that they made And that's scary.

I think that's lawlessness I understand the Especially at the higher court levels the the appellate courts and the supreme courts.

Why?

Why partisanship is is an issue?

and in fact We see in the in the federal judiciary it is It does play a large part in in the discussions when we see the confirmation hearings at the circuit court level Generally a judge is making a factual determination and applying those facts to the law And partisanship shouldn't have an issue You should you should get a fair shaking court whether you're a democrat with a republican whether you're a libertarian no matter what, and I think if And this goes into lawlessness if there is a judge who is clearly Um a a democrat on the bench and a republican goes in there and loses the temptation is going to be to blame the judge Because they were a democrat As opposed to looking at the actual basis for the ruling and that's I don't think that's a place We really want to be in as a society.

I think that's gonna that would cause some serious problems So I agree that these judge situations should be nonpartisan well, which they are luckily and there's also we'll make note of the fact that there is a Kind of a parallel process that is going on right now.

I just saw it popped up on my feed a little bit ago that We have a judicial nominating commission that is now looking we have uh, two openings here the aforementioned um Judge lane.

And uh There's let's see one other judge.

Robert.

I think was uh off so now the judicial nominating commission is looking to come up with some folks to uh Perhaps succeed them on the bench and that is a a different process completely than the one that we are talking about right now Which is coming up on august 18th Which is the primary election when both of these folks will be presenting their case to the voters for a final ruling as it was And I what I want to do is to give each of you.

We'll go back to our original, uh order of uh, operation right now for a final couple of minutes you get to do your Summation if you would Angela Dempsey will start with you here make your best case for why the voters of the second judicial Circuit should retain you on the bench Sure.

Thank you so much tom, so i'm supported and recognized as a leader by my colleagues and peers i've already mentioned My work teaching the other 600 circuit judges in the state I'm, also the chair of the rules of criminal procedure.

I was appointed to that position by the president of the florida bar and we Write and edit the rules that apply to every criminal case in the state of florida I have invaluable judicial experience and maturity that will enable me to continue In this position.

I have a lot of community involvement through Rotary leadership tallahassee and second harvest i'm going to work with second harvest later this afternoon um through the 25 women you need to know group that i'm also a part of My opponent I think only has really has experience in criminal law He's immature and not experienced enough to be a circuit judge.

He's only been practicing For nine years.

Um There's also only three of us 16 circuit judges are women.

Um, So I just think that's something to keep in mind when you're voting and that percentage is a lot lower than the percentage around the state Um and the election on august 18th happens to be on the 100th anniversary Of uh women's right to suffrage so that's kind of a important Anniversary as well and just in anticipation that my opponent might bring up um What he normally criticizes me for which has to do um He alleges that i've been reversed more than other judges.

That just is not true And I have statistics to back that up.

Uh But please vote for me on august 18th.

Um, I Would be humbled to have your support.

Thanks so much.

The last word from Angela Dempsey.

Kevin Alvarez it's yours for summation, sir Thank you, Tom.

I appreciate it.

So i'm asking for everybody's vote on august 18th.

My opponent's been a judge Now for 14 years and a recent Poll I guess was published in the democrat Indicated that uh over 80 percent of people had concerns about whether the criminal justice system Was fair and whether the and that included the the court system Um, I think it's it's time for a change because judge Dempsey has not been able to To keep that number lower candidly um It is it is of critical importance that judges follow the law and provide an environment that people feel like the rulings Are fair and that they are indeed fair Um judge Dempsey is absolutely correct.

I normally do bring up her record Of a large number of reversals including 14 times in 18 months on the same area of law I do not understand how you can claim to be somebody that is Careful and scrupulous about following the law and get reversed 14 times in 18 months on the same general area of law And that's in a reversal is when the appellate court reviews a trial court's decision circuit judge's decision and says that was wrong And so that's the primary reason that i'm running against against my opponent.

Um, My opponent, I guess just alleged that i'm immature and at 21 22 23 years old I was immature.

There's no dispute about that I've now been married for years.

I'm in my 30s I certainly have the experience the constitution requires five years of experience for somebody to be a circuit court judge I have I have basically, uh Nine years of experience as a lawyer plus a year as a certified legal intern trying cases.

So about 10 years of trial court experience Which is plenty of experience to do the job correctly?

I'd also note, my campaign has chosen not to go negative.

We don't think that's appropriate and we've chosen not to do that My opponent made a separate decision So i'd ask the voters to vote for me on august 18th And thank you Tom so much for putting this on and for your listeners taking the time to listen to the race Thank you.

Kevin Alvarez.

Thank you Angela Dempsey for being on our final Political Perspectives before the august 18th primary election Uh, good luck to both of you in the upcoming perspectives produced by WFSU Public Media in tallahassee Thanks going out to Taylor Cox, Paul Dam, Amy Diaz de Villegas, Trisha Moynihan and Lydell Rawls, our executive producer Is Kim Kelling and i'm tom Flanigan.

as we said this concludes our primary election Political Perspectives We'll kick off another series of programs in advance of the november general election Seems like it's going to be a long time in the future.

It is not.

next week We're going to return to some Non-political topics.

this summer marks the 30th anniversary of the ADA Americans with disabilities act and in florida and the capital region in particular we got some new initiatives to put to give the observance some more relevance and significance than in years past we invite you to join us for that conversation on air and online from WFSU Public Media.

Take care.