GEOFF BENNETT: From Trump officials sharing# sensitive information a commercial app## to Donald Trump's bid for Greenland,# it's time now for Brooks and Marcus.## That's New York Times columnist# David Brooks, and Ruth Marcus,## a longtime columnist formerly of The Washington# Post.

Jonathan Capehart is away this evening.

It's great to have you both here.

Lots of news to discuss this week, starting,# David, of course, with the controversy .. those secret details of pending military# strikes in Yemen that were posted on that## unsecured group chat that mistakenly included# our friend journalist Jeffrey Goldberg.

We have had a couple of days# now to -- more than a couple,## a few days now, to digest this.

What# stands out to you as the consequences?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I have spiraled.

When I first told Geoff's story, I just# thought mind-boggling incompetence, like## something I have never seen before.

And it just# seemed like -- and I have been saying for weeks,## the Democrats should talk about nothing but# Trump incompetence, incompetence, incompetence.

But then it got uglier.

I was at the gym,# believe it or not, when I was -- I watched## Pete Hegseth come off an airplane and make his# first comment, attacking Geoff.

And -- but just## mostly it was an aggressive form of bald-face# lying that is -- tells you a lot about a guy.

It was obvious they were caught with a screw-up.# A normal human being, I really think 99 percent of## human beings said, we messed up.

We messed# up.

We're going to fix this.

We messed up.

I think -- but not the Trump administration.# They went on a vicious attack of character## assassination, of ad hominem, of all the# ugliest things it's possible to dredge up,## and that was their universal instinct.

And so I# found it incredibly ugly as the story went on.

GEOFF BENNETT: Ruth, what about that?

I mean,## it's characteristic of a White House that nev.. that they have answered this national security# scandal with a fiercely political argument?

RUTH MARCUS, Columnist: Well, surprise.

I# think this is a really -- I thought -- when## this first broke, I thought this is an# incredible screw-up and a great story.

And, by the way, when he came to The# Washington Post as a summer intern,## I was Jeffrey Goldberg's big# buddy, professional partner,## so I would like to say, I get all the credit# or the blame for whoever he turned out to be.

RUTH MARCUS: But the I think this is one of# these sticky moments for an administration.

We saw it when Bush said, "Heck of a job,# Brownie," when we all knew that they were## messing up with Katrina.

We all saw it when# the Biden administration messed up the exit## from Afghanistan.

This is one of those moments# that's actually bigger than the moment itself,## because, first of all, anybody can understand,## anybody at the gym understands you do not# treat operational details in this insecure way.

They can draw distinctions all they want# about whether information was classified## or not.

Everybody knows this was bungled.

Number# two, it just illustrates what we also all knew,## those of us who are honest with ourselves, which# is this crew -- and I will start with the FOX## News host who was tapped to be the defense# secretary -- is not ready for prime time.

If they were ready for prime time, they would# not be discussing secrets like this on an open## channel.

And, finally, the counterpunching.# You can get away with a lot.

We have all## made mistakes, and some of us who've over the# years have learned even to apologize for them.

If they had just said, we messed up and# moved on, I think they would have served## themselves better than doing what they have# done now, which is to attack Jeffrey Goldberg,## who was a -- the only responsible# participant in this whole event.

And people don't -- are not# going to treat this -- this is## going to be remembered as a bad# moment for this administration.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, David, there's also the# substance of what was said on this chat.

I mean,## the Trump administration has signaled that# the transatlantic alliance, as we know it,## is over, at least as compared# to the last 80 years of history.

But, in private, on this chat, what# we saw from J.D.

Vance, he says,## I just hate bailing Europe out again.# The secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth,## described Europe as freeloading in the# chat.

He calls the continent pathetic.

What does that lay bare, and what# are the implications of that?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, this is our# level of foreign policy thinking,## like, oh, we don't like those guys.

Basically, you have got an administration and# these guys, down to the .. everything into hard and soft.

And they think# Putin is hard and Europe is soft.

They think## universities are soft and they're hard.

And so,# are you masculine or not?

And they code Europe## as soft, which is ridiculous.

Europe is a diverse# country with a lot of hard people and soft people.

But this is part of a -- not only one screw-up.

We# have had two months or 50 days, wherever we are,## of a comprehensive weakening of our security# apparatus.

They're diverting FBI agents away## from terrorism.

They're firing people# who are now being recruited, I have read,## by Chinese and Russian agents to# see if -- the former U.S. employees.

They're gutting the national -- the nuclear# security Agency.

They're gutting the security## clearances.

So this is a comprehensive# assault that will make America less safe.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, let's# talk about Greenland, because,## as we reported earlier this evening, the# vice president, he led a delegation there,## and it was reflective of President Trump's desire# to control this semiautonomous Danish territory.

What do you make of President Trump threatening# territorial expansion in the Western Hemisphere,## trying to annex Greenland?

How does that contrast# with his America first ideology and his rhetoric?

RUTH MARCUS: America only.

It's not# just America first.

It's America only.## It's the toddler who says, I see that, I want it,## give it to me.

It could be Greenland.

It could# be Canada.

It could be the Panama Canal back.

Whatever he wants, he's going to get,# as if there isn't what we thought was## an international rules-based order.# And just to amplify what David was## saying, though I do want to say# feminine is not necessarily bad.

(CROSSTALK) DA.. RUTH MARCUS: I will take it... DAVID BROOKS: Yes.

OK. Ruth is# going to beat me up after this.

RUTH MARCUS: I a.. RUTH MARCUS: But we are -- I used to ask# during the first Trump administration when## I would see foreign policy experts# about how reparable the damage was.

And I thought -- and they would say it was# irreparable, and I would say, well maybe we## can fix it.

And I thought President Biden did a# very good job of knitting back together alliances## that had been terribly frayed.

When I see the# way President Trump is talking about Greenland,## I must have it, or the way he's talking about,# he and others are talking about European allies,## they're freeloaders, or the way# he talks about the 51st state,## I think we are not going to be able to put this# broken system back together once he's gone.

And I think that is a very scary moment.

GEOFF BENNETT: Do you see a through line# here?

I mean, if you look at his America## first rhetoric, and now this expansionist# rhetoric, make sense of it for us.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, some of it is I think what# Ruth said.

It's just a kid wanting things.

But if there's a through line, I guess# he has some thing in his head -- well,## first he's delusional if he thinks the# Greenlanders want to be Americans.

And## if some big -- Donald Trump comes and# say, I want you to join our country,## who -- what country on Earth is going# to say, oh, OK, we will do that?

But the through line, if I can think of it, is,# he really likes the late 19th century.

And this## was an era of American -- of ugly American# imperialism.

And so I think he -- we had## territorial expansion, Philippines and# all over -- all this stuff.

And it was## not a good moment in American history.

But# he somehow wants to do it all over again.

And so he has this thing for McKinley.

But# if you go back to, Spanish-Mexican war,## like you -- all this stuff was just a dark# moment.

And I think it's what he likes.

RUTH MARCUS: The world might have worked# that way then.

It does not work that way now.## It needs to work through a lot -- if it's going# to work, it needs to work through alliances of## people who treat their allies with respect.

And# they can save the masculinity for their enemies.

GEOFF BENNETT: Lastly, Ruth, it's great# to have you here.

After an impressive and## impactful career at The Washington Post, you# decided to step down.

Help us understand why.

RUTH MARCUS: Well, first, I want to say that I'm# really grateful to be here at the "News Hour."

And the reason is, after I# decided to resign after 40 days,## six months and six days, but who's counting?

GEOFF BENNETT: Forty years.

DAVID BROOKS: Forty years.

RUTH MARCUS: For..

I had, among other comments, a lot of# people from the -- who are viewers of## the "News Hour," saying, we hope we will# see you there.

So I'm very grateful that## you're having me, even though I'm kind of# professionally unhoused for the moment.

RUTH MARCUS: I decided to -- I had to resign# because I could no longer tell my readers## that I was able to write what I wanted about the# things that I thought were most important to say.

And what happened was, back in October, when# Jeff Bezos, the owner of The Washington Post,## decided not to run the already drafted# endorsement of Kamala Harris and not to run## presidential endorsements later, I disagreed with# that decision and I wrote a column expressing my,## I thought, polite disagreement# with that decision.

And it ran.

When Jeff Bezos decided that he was going to# shift that -- the opinion section more broadly## in a way to limit dissent, as David pointed# out on this segment when Jonathan was here,## I also wrote a column.

And that# column, I had to write it because## it was what I believed.

I had written the# previous column.

That column didn't run.

And when that column didn't run, I# knew that my time at The Post had## come to an end because I could no# longer write what I wanted to say.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, we are glad to have you here.

RUTH MARCUS: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: R.. DAVID BROOKS: You too.

RUTH MARCUS: Thanks.

You too.